We are seriously asking you to find a better example of what you claim than “Cowboy Bebop”.
Pedantic
The creation and conception of Spike:
Spike Spiegel - Wikipedia
If this article isn’t enough, the links in the article should be.
If you could provide a decent example, we wouldn’t have to use our imagination.
Absolutely wrong.
This is the Pit, where you need to back up your claims. With facts.
For what it’s worth, I agree with the idea that the dictionary definition fo cultural appropriation carries things too far. In particular I think that it would apply to a lot of work done by Japanese artists in the areas of anime, video games, etc. The actual “cancellation” of the cultural appropriation done by Japanese artists using western ideas is rare, but it has happened. Here’s one example from the video game Xenosaga, which is one of my favorites.
In that particular case, a character held the title Pope in the Japanese version, but it was changed to Patriarch in the English version due to religious sensitivities. There are some other examples from the Xenogears / Xenosaga franchise as well. The next to last boss in Xenogears was originally supposed to named Yahweh. It was changed to Yabeh in the Japanese version and Deus in the English version. There was a ship named Eldridge which was originally supposed to be Noah’s Ark.
All that being said, in this particular case I don’t see it. They want to make a previously white and possibly Jewish character an Asian character in a remake. I don’t see the problem with that, just like I don’t see a problem with the original either.
I reluctantly agree. Bleach, Full Metal Alchemist, and Death Note are all anime series I enjoyed and the live action versions were disappointing to me.
I did like Battle Angel Alita, I read the manga and felt the film (while not perfect) did a pretty good job of capturing the story well. Then again, that was manga to film, not anime to film, so not quite the same.
I never watched the original Ghost in the Shell but I thought the live action film was dull. I have a feeling I’d have appreciated the original more but that’s just a guess.
I hesitate to imagine how badly they might screw up something like Naruto or Sword Art Online (the former is almost inevitable).
So “cultural appropriation,” like its fellows “fake news,” “cancel,” and “woke,” to name but a few, has fallen as another linguistic casualty in the culture wars. It has been, er, appropriated and shorn of its original, specific meaning. Now you can cite it as a vague concept any time cross-cultural issues arise, and claim that you’re using the dictionary definition in doing so.
Jesus fucking wept.
It sounds to me like the people in the podcast did not understand what cultural appropriation is. The term has a neutral definition, but the one used most commonly in popular discourse is about the inappropriate kind. In that context, it’s generally about adopting something from a culture that is considered sacred (or equivalent), and then treating it with irreverence. This is generally only a problem if it kicks down, thus from about a culture that has historically been oppressed by the appropriator.
I do not see how Spike, being a light skinned guy with an Afro, was appropriating anything. His hairstyle is not sacred. And, from what I gather of his origins, he’s supposed to be essentially pan-racial, being born in a human colony on Mars.
I can say that it never even occurred to me that he could be intended to be Jewish. I always thought of him as the same race as most generic looking anime characters, which I guess is some sort of East Asian—probably Japanese since that’s their main language.
Granted, I only watched the show as a kid, likely too young to understand most of it, and remember even less of it. I’m going by what I’ve heard about it and what I’ve looked up on it.
This is the issue I have. The definition as frequently cited implies that that appropriation only applies when it’s kicking down, but it’s not often explicitly stated, for obvious reasons (to avoid charges of reverse racism). Thus it’s not usually an issue when the Japanese borrow from the King Arthur tales to make Dragon Quest, or when a Japanese kid wears their hair in the style of a white character from a video game or anime. But if a white kid genuinely thinks cornrows are cool and wears their hair that way, they open themselves up for charges of cultural appropriation or outright racism.
oh, I wasn’t complaining about punching up or down, just that you gave a terrible example of the phenomenon the term was meant to describe. I will not vouch for whatever BigT said.
It’s used to describe a lot of things. The way I understand it, the original issue involved things like white musicians such as Elvis Presley singing music originally written by Black artists and having greater commercial success with it than the original artists. Now, however, the definition has stretched to include a lot of other aspects of the various cultures of historically. disadvantaged minority groups.
Let’s consider a more contemporary aspect of the term, the wearing of traditional dress as a Halloween costume. My guess is that if a Native American were to dress in full plate mail or a karuta (samurai armor), or even dressing as a Catholic priest or Shinto monk, for Halloween, that it wouldn’t be an issue. But if a white person were to dress as a traditional Apache warrior or medicine man, some people would take offense.
On the other hand, there was that shitstorm in 2018 when an 18-year-old girl wore a traditional Chinese-style gown to her prom and got accused of cultural appropriation, stirring up a mighty debate on both sides. She argued that she wore the dress because it was beautiful, and thus her choice to wear it was an expression of appreciation. Yet there was a widespread shitstorm of debate about it.
That’s a good example. There’s probably a higher likelihood that the charge of cultural appropriation would be leveled against a white person borrowing from Chinese culture than Japanese culture. In either case, and with any other culture as well, I don’t see an issue as long as the person doing the borrowing is doing it respectfully and not in a way that is intended to poke fun at another culture.
Agreed. If a person dresses up like a Native American or (ugh) in blackface for Halloween, it is as if they are equating that race with something non-human like a werewolf or vampire. To me that is extremely disrespectful. But wearing a traditional outfit to a formal event is elevating that outfit and showcasing its elegance and style, that is the opposite.
As far as the example of the cheongsam being worn to a high school prom, that is not a traditional dress being appropriated. It’s ironic for someone to accuse her of cultural appropriation, because the dress she wore came about in the 1930s when Chinese women wanted to mimic western styles and turned the traditional long, loose traditional dress:
…And then westernized it, making the sleeves and skirt shorter and the entire dress body-hugging, as seen in this 1930s photo:
She wore a westernized version of the dress; one might say a style that the Chinese appropriated from the west.
It occurs to me, I don’t think anyone has commented on the fact that the OP objects to an Asian and a Black actor taking roles that they feel should go to White actors.
If the OP does object on this basis, that’s basically throwing out the cultural appropriation card, just in the opposite direction, and I would take issue with that as well. Doubly so for the hypocrisy of calling it out in one direction but endorsing it in the other. It’s no different than saying that Idris Elba can’t play James Bond or Roland of Gilead, or that Santa Claus can’t be Black. Those are also equally ridiculous positions. Just as I have no problem with a white kid who wants to be LeBron James for Halloween, I have no issues with a Black person being cast in a traditionally white role.
Well for starters SAO is itself a screwed up version of a classic of film cinema. A movie claimed by some to be one of the best if not the best in it’s genre featuring one of the greatest entertainers in history. Jumanji.
I never saw that connection but you’re right, there are a lot of parallels.
These terms are probably closely defined in intellectual or perhaps academic realms but popularly, they are used across a wide variety of circumstances to the extent that (at least in my case) I don’t think I’m “confused” about what cultural appropriation is, I just don’t believe that it has any clear definition in popular use.
When it comes to culture wars, I don’t think that “cultural appropriation” is in the same category as “fake news” or say “political correctness” both of which seem now to be mostly used by right wingers as a source of satire.
I do regularly hear left-wing people throwing around complaints about “cultural appropriation” that seem to me to be misguided; or at least based upon definitions so wide as to be almost meaningless.