I'm doing it for charity.

[Munch]

Yes I do read newspapers and watch t.v. news and where I live its almost a daily thing to read an article about people doing pointless activities in the name of charity raising, and weekly on the area t.v. station.

I’ve got the Sunday paper right here in front of me. Not a single such story. Either way, I simply don’t see any justification for vilifying positive outcomes for mundane activities. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Your excuse for assigning selfless,caring motives for self indulgent activities is that it publicises the charity (as well of course the saint whos the indulgee).

I haven’t done any such thing - in fact I pointedly acknowledged that true altuism doesn’t exist, and that people are selfish. I fact, that was the very first thing I said. You seem to be doing a fair bit of projecting.

Well publicise your charity by helping the pensioners, or the poor or the handicapped and the publicity will be even better then some obese person laying off of the chocolates for a week or two, or going on a fun run, or a sponsored farting marathon or whatever .

Spoken like a true non-volunteer. First off, running a marathon just doesn’t garner publicity like you say it does. I just googled “July 23 marathon”, and the Spearfish Canyon Half Marathon was the first hit. Let’s see if we can find any special interest stories from the local paper regarding this half marathon… Nope. But googling more, I found this nice story about a PE teacher who’s going to run a marathon and raise $2500 for a cancer research organization doing so, as well as awareness regarding fitness and goal achievement. So you have a problem with that - let’s see what you’d rather have her do:

Doing a pensioners shopping, taking their dog for a walk, doing their gardening, keeping them company, helps the pensioners.

I’m sorry to break this to you, but raising $2500 is worth much more than any of those activities, and in fact would pay for those services a dozen times over.

Well publicise your charity by helping the pensioners, or the poor or the handicapped and the publicity will be even better then some obese person laying off of the chocolates for a week or two, or going on a fun run, or a sponsored farting marathon or whatever .

(Other) people volunteer all the time. Guess what - they don’t get that sort of publicity. Period.

People will be more likely to believe that your motives are genuine, rather then an excuse for egotistical self promotion.

I’ll say it one more time - the people that are raising money on their own with no prompting from the organization itself are also the people volunteering, are also the people bringing their friends to volunteer, are also the people going out and getting more donors, and are doing so with no fanfare. Your refusal to believe that is delusional.

And as a result will be more likely to give in the first place, and give MORE.

In my professional opinion, this is correct (other than the volunteer work getting more publicity - that’s a fabrication). However, your assumption that they’re not already doing those things is completely false.

[Munch]

@PookahMacPhellimey

Maybe it’s a personal thing, though, but I’ve never been one to be so terribly impressed by people making difficulties where there are none (mountain-climbing, parachuting etc). If you want to do that, then do so and that’s fine. I just have a hard time admiring it because it doesn’t in and of itself achieve anything* and the difficulties that are being overcome are self-created…just give me the homebaked cookies, okay!

I can see that. I’ve been on both sides of these activities - as both a representative of organizations receiving the donations, as well as the person running the race/losing the weight/growing a mustache/what have you. Publicity and ego stroking sure doesn’t motivate me to finish the race, because there is no publicity (despite the OP’s insistence). What motivates me is the potential shame of not finishing, and having to tell everyone that already donated for me that I failed. It’s absolutely self-serving, but I’m much more likely to give up if there’s nothing on the line (obviously).

[Sam_I_Am]

Sure, selflessly helping others is great. But selfishly helping is better than not helping, in general.

[Lust4Life]

@Munch

I’ve got the Sunday paper right here in front of me. Not a single such story. Either way, I simply don’t see any justification for vilifying positive outcomes for mundane activities. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I haven’t done any such thing - in fact I pointedly acknowledged that true altuism doesn’t exist, and that people are selfish. I fact, that was the very first thing I said. You seem to be doing a fair bit of projecting.

Spoken like a true non-volunteer. First off, running a marathon just doesn’t garner publicity like you say it does. I just googled “July 23 marathon”, and the Spearfish Canyon Half Marathon was the first hit. Let’s see if we can find any special interest stories from the local paper regarding this half marathon… Nope. But googling more, I found this nice story about a PE teacher who’s going to run a marathon and raise $2500 for a cancer research organization doing so, as well as awareness regarding fitness and goal achievement. So you have a problem with that - let’s see what you’d rather have her do:

I’m sorry to break this to you, but raising $2500 is worth much more than any of those activities, and in fact would pay for those services a dozen times over.

(Other) people volunteer all the time. Guess what - they don’t get that sort of publicity. Period.

I’ll say it one more time - the people that are raising money on their own with no prompting from the organization itself are also the people volunteering, are also the people bringing their friends to volunteer, are also the people going out and getting more donors, and are doing so with no fanfare. Your refusal to believe that is delusional.
In my professional opinion, this is correct (other than the volunteer work getting more publicity - that’s a fabrication). However, your assumption that they’re not already doing those things is completely false.

As the entirety of your post is is either anecdotal or opinion only I’m not going to bother refuting your non points.

OK if you’re one of those people who get enjoyment out of being an organiser/being in charge, and use charities as a time filling hobby then thats down to you and your conscience.

I myself am involved in two charities, one of which I help fund raise for and donate to myself, and one of which I help fund raise for, donate to myself and give a fair amount of my time to actually doing the stuff, not talking about it .

And no I don’t get a nice little salary;with expenses for doing it, nor do I get a percentage of donations collected as I know some people do.

Neither do I accidently on purpose introduce the fact that I do charity work into every conversation as a pretext for showing people how saintly or caring I am .

Once more I’ll reiterate one of my points as you appear to be putting your fingers in your ears and humming loudly during this conversation.

If you want to do something you enjoy doing, or want to do something that helps you personally then by all means do it.
But if incidentally you actually make some money for charity don’t expect to be treated as some sort of a selfless, caring saint, and please, please spare us the old chestnut about bringing valuable publicity to the charity concerned .

The media, both paid for, and unpaid, are the engines that power public awareness of both charities and situations requiring the help of charities, not Bill Blogs, or for that matter, any amount of Bill Bloggses doing a fun run to prove something to themselves, or get their face in the local paper.

Perhaps these people could ask the public to sponsor their hypocricy for charity.

They’d make a fortune.

[EmAnJ]

@Lust4Life

As the entirety of your post is is either anecdotal or opinion only I’m not going to bother refuting your non points.

You do realize the same could be said for everything you’ve posted too, right? :dubious:

[Thudlow_Boink]

Yeah, I’ve never been convinced that -thons were that great of an idea. If your cause is worthy, why can’t I just donate money without you having to waste a lot of time doing something that doesn’t directly benefit anybody else?

[BigT]

You asked why people think it’s a good thing. People try to answer you. You then tell them they aren’t listening. No, we hear you loud and clear:Unless you do something completely selfless, you shouldn’t bother helping out at all.

That is a stupid position. It is better for people to give what they can than to be held up by artificial constraints that you made up because it makes you uncomfortable. If I can get people to help with a good cause, and I can enjoy my work, too, that means more people are happy, which means I did good. It is only wrong to benefit yourself at the expense of others.

I make others happy. I make myself happy. The fact that one guy who wants to judge me on how big a sacrifice I made is unhappy? Sorry, you are not more important than these other people.

[Lust4Life]

@EmAnJ

You do realize the same could be said for everything you’ve posted too, right? :dubious:

It could also be said that I’m the spawn of Satan, with equal accuracy.

[Lust4Life]

@BigT

You asked why people think it’s a good thing. People try to answer you. You then tell them they aren’t listening. No, we hear you loud and clear:Unless you do something completely selfless, you shouldn’t bother helping out at all.

That is a stupid position. It is better for people to give what they can than to be held up by artificial constraints that you made up because it makes you uncomfortable. If I can get people to help with a good cause, and I can enjoy my work, too, that means more people are happy, which means I did good. It is only wrong to benefit yourself at the expense of others.

I make others happy. I make myself happy. The fact that one guy who wants to judge me on how big a sacrifice I made is unhappy? Sorry, you are not more important than these other people.

So why in that case, don’t you just go out and do your fun run, and collect the money seperately ?

I train regulary but I don’t insult other peoples intelligence by pretending that I’m doing it for the wellbeing of the underpriveleged.

Why connect the two events ?

Why should other peoples poverty and suffering be used as a vehicle for your own, and others, self aggrandisment ?

I’m not saying that everyone should act like Mother Theresa, what I am saying is why not do something USEFUL for charity, or cut the ego massaging crap and just collect the money?

And no I’m not important, you’re not important, the only people who are important in this discussion are the people who desperately need the charity.

[EmAnJ]

It’s like you aren’t even reading the responses in this thread. All those questions have been answered one way or another.

[jali]

If I walk for a cause and ask 40 of my friends to support the cause - there are now 40 people donating to this particular cause that might never have given a dime.
If I can get a workout and help someone else at the same time, it’s a big win.

You may feel that this isn’t helping, but I think it is.
Please don’t assume that people who walk or run or read for charity don’t do other things as well.

kiva.org is my favorite place to give. Habitat is another.

[Candyman74]

@Lust4Life

At a previous; job during a staff briefing we were asked to congratulate two staff members for losing so many pounds weight on a sponsored diet for Children in Need.

My immediate response was that they were trying to slim down because they felt less attractive carrying extra pounds, plus being obese was bad for their health.

Not only were they not doing it for charity, they were actually using the charity to motivate themselves to achieve their own ends.

And people don’t normally sponsor themselves in these events, so they’re not even giving any of their own money to the charity concerned.

I’ve seen it so many times, people who enjoy running, “running for charity” .

Fanatical swimmers doing likewise, people who have always fancied doing a parachute jump, people who have wanted to give up smoking, drive round Europe in vintage cars …

All doing it “for the children”, for the Third World ", etc.
Why don’t these people instead of helping themselves; do something for the community.

Something not particulary pleasant that helps other people, not just themselves ?

Picking up rubbish on the sea shore (amongst other things saving birds from strangling on beer can plastic and fishing line).

Clearing out polluted minor waterways, taking pensioners dogs for walks, and exchanging their books at the library.

Cleaning graffiti off of walls.

Not as much fun as dressing up as a cowboy, or French maid "for charity ", or going sailing on a Tall Ship, I know; but a hell of a lot more use to the community and underpriveleged individuals.

And also IMO ordinary people would be a lot more enthusiastic about becoming sponsors in the first place, AND actually be more generous in the amount they’re prepared to donate.

I couldn’t care less how many pounds weight you lose, and might, under pressure. grudgingly volunteer a small amount of money.

But if I’m paying so much for every bag of dogs crap you’ve picked up in the local area, not only am I more then happy to sponsor you, the more money I have to give you the happier I will be.

AND I will genuinely admire your very real self sacrifice for other peoples good.

I will also have a very real respect for the sort of person who is prepared to do this.

Unlike the self servers who use charitable causes for their own ends.

So, lemme get this straight.

Someone figures out a way to raise money for a charity (let’s say orphaned kids). They proceed to do so. And then you villify them because they aren’t miserable enough? Do you think, maybe, you might have missed the point? Raising money for charity isn’t only valid if you hate doing doing it.

They aren’t doing it for your respect, or to prove something. They’re doing to raise money for charity. If they’re lucky enough to have a way to do that and enjoy the process, good for fucking them.

[Munch]

@Lust4Life

OK if you’re one of those people who get enjoyment out of being an organiser/being in charge, and use charities as a time filling hobby then thats down to you and your conscience.

I volunteer for a number of organizations, and am also a professional fundraiser. I can assure you, I get no publicity for it. So when I say “professional opinion”, I mean just that.

nor do I get a percentage of donations collected as I know some people do.

Glad to hear it - that’s an entirely unethical practice that disgusts me.

But if incidentally you actually make some money for charity don’t expect to be treated as some sort of a selfless, caring saint, and please, please spare us the old chestnut about bringing valuable publicity to the charity concerned .

I haven’t ignored this point - in fact I’ve addressed it several times. However, repeating it simply doesn’t make it true. If you want to read my response, it’s posted above.

The media, both paid for, and unpaid, are the engines that power public awareness of both charities and situations requiring the help of charities, not Bill Blogs, or for that matter, any amount of Bill Bloggses doing a fun run to prove something to themselves, or get their face in the local paper.

Perhaps these people could ask the public to sponsor their hypocricy for charity.

It may just be me, but this appears to be gibberish.

[Romeo_and_Whatsherface]

@Thudlow_Boink

Yeah, I’ve never been convinced that -thons were that great of an idea. If your cause is worthy, why can’t I just donate money without you having to waste a lot of time doing something that doesn’t directly benefit anybody else?

Years back, I ran the local office of a national, service-based nonprofit organization. The organization relied on volunteers who donated significant amounts of their time to directly help kids. That’s the kind of “charitable” work the OP is referring to, I believe. They got little publicity for their work, but of course there was compensation, of a sort: the knowledge they were helping others and the fun they had while doing it. Some volunteers said things like, "I like to bowl. It’s even more fun if I can take a kid with me."There’s almost always that kind of compensation. It’s not a bad thing.

Yet the agency couldn’t function just on volunteerism. There was rent to pay, staff (minimal) salaries (also minimal), materials, etc., etc. We did seek and get some direct donations, but guess what?** People are less apt to just delve into their pockets than they are to participate in something that’s also enjoyable**. Throw in a competition of some sort or a social event, and many, many more people will happily participate and raise money. Yep, a few of those people will exploit the situation for their own rewards. So what? Couldn’t they do that if they’re picking up six-pack rings on the beach or mentoring a student? Sure, they could, as a line on a resume, or a line at a singles bar.

Maybe the quibble of the OP is with human nature, and maybe with a handful of people for who are motivated solely by selfish concerns instead of compassion.

[Lust4Life]

[QUOTE=Munch;14061467

It may just be me, but this appears to be gibberish.[/QUOTE]

Yes you are correct, it is just you.

[Lust4Life]

@Candyman74

So, lemme get this straight.

Someone figures out a way to raise money for a charity (let’s say orphaned kids). They proceed to do so. And then you villify them because they aren’t miserable enough? Do you think, maybe, you might have missed the point? Raising money for charity isn’t only valid if you hate doing doing it.

They aren’t doing it for your respect, or to prove something. They’re doing to raise money for charity. If they’re lucky enough to have a way to do that and enjoy the process, good for fucking them.

Firstly, no, they haven’t come up with a way to raise money for charity, they’ve come up with a way to become the center of attention, and possibly get their pictures in the local paper.

The actual charity is a secondary issue, a means to and end .

And that end is themselves; not people who need help.

No I’m not villifying them for not bring miserable enough, but I am saying that all of the time and effort they put into self publicising stunts could have been better used actually helping people.

Who CARES if a group of people have been playing table tennis, or dancing, or juggling for two days or whatever ?

What on earth has performing pointless activities to do with helping the underprivileged ?

Most people would say absaloutley nothing, but everything to do with self publicising.

I would’nt be stunned with amazement if the families and friends of people asking to be sponsored, paid over the money when asked, WITHOUT them having to dress up as a clown and get pelted with tennis balls or whatever.

In fact I could honestly see people paying over the money if they promised NOT to do the senseless task and give their ears a rest from the attention seekers prating.

Heres an idea !

Why not have them sponsored to receive flattery ?

"Hey you’re looking good, you must have been working out, heres ten bucks for Help the aged ".
That way it saves them from having to walk on their hands down the main drag, stripped naked and sprayed purple while singing I’m a little tea pot, and it achieves just as much in the end..

[Munch]

Second verse, same as the first!

[MsRobyn]

Lust4Life, I’d like your take on this.

Where I live, various groups meet periodically to have a kaffeeklatsch and knit scarves and baby blankets for the local women’s shelter. It’s possible that these same people would get together to knit things for themselves and their families, but they choose to do it for a cause they believe in. Does this qualify as “selfish” to you?

[Thudlow_Boink]

@Romeo_and_Whatsherface

Yet the agency couldn’t function just on volunteerism. There was rent to pay, staff (minimal) salaries (also minimal), materials, etc., etc. We did seek and get some direct donations, but guess what?** People are less apt to just delve into their pockets than they are to participate in something that’s also enjoyable**. Throw in a competition of some sort or a social event, and many, many more people will happily participate and raise money.

Yes, that makes sense to me. The part that doesn’t make total sense is expecting Person B to just delve into their pockets because Person A is participating in something (e.g. “Donate to this charity because I walked 10 miles or read 10 books or lost 10 pounds” vs “Donate to this charity because it’s a good cause and your money will be used to help people”).

[Munch]

@Thudlow_Boink

Yes, that makes sense to me. The part that doesn’t make total sense is expecting Person B to just delve into their pockets because Person A is participating in something (e.g. “Donate to this charity because I walked 10 miles or read 10 books or lost 10 pounds” vs “Donate to this charity because it’s a good cause and your money will be used to help people”).

Makes sense. If there are two people running the same event for charity, Person B there is going to raise a lot more than Person A ever would.