I blame it on Trump. He’s bad, in case you hadn’t heard.
Which part contradicts which other part?
This President you’re talking about that you feel is being so unfairly maligned – would that be the same guy who spent years – not weeks or months, but at least 6 years IIRC – accusing Obama of being born in Kenya and hence an illegitimate President? I understand Trump even sent private investigators to Hawaii, and told us we just wouldn’t believe the shocking things they were discovering! I’m still waiting to find out, but he seems to have forgotten all about it, because now this lunatic is the president of the goddam country!!
I’m sorry, but we all have to make sacrifices in the resistance movement. School plays, baseball games, and 4th of July picnics will all have a “Fuck Trump” theme until he’s gone. The struggle is real. If people get bored, we must simply turn up the volume.
Thing is that I have seen several examples of posters from other countries thinking that more Americans are in favor of the Cheeto in chief and giving up on us, had to tell them that even polls that seem to show a slight support of the mound in chief about the Muslim ban, are actually showing a more nuanced position, and that most Americans **still **want to allow refugees and immigrants even from Muslim troubled nations. IMHO it is very important to remind all others and the world every day that dissent in America is, besides a right, also a powerful weapon to disarm propaganda that is geared to make others hate America.
Personally speaking: it was thanks to knowing in my youth that America was not just made of supporters of Reagan (that willfully ignored that he was supporting despots in Central America and other nations) but also of people that dissented, is what that told me to have hope and that it was possible then to make a life in the USA, even though the USA was also a reason for the violence in El Salvador.
That clear presence and endurance of dissent is what showed to me early in my youth that in America one could dissent **peacefully **and not end up tortured, shot and dumped in a road as many opposition leaders were in El Salvador in the 80’s. If all the powerful and most people were like that in the USA, I too would had despaired, took matters into my own hands, and not gone with my family that told me that we had to flee due to threats to our lives. Because, when they kill the best a nation has that tells one that it is time to take to arms and not just be sitting ducks. But knowing the big picture can tell one that one can make a difference by eventually becoming an American and not reaching for armed solutions.
What I’m saying also is that what happened then was that thanks to knowing that dissent was allowed in America is that then one less guerrilla fighter came to be. Depending on the circumstances, it could had ended up shooting to American soldier “trainers” of the military thugs in El Salvador instead of being one more American now.
The part were you say that it was demonstrated that people do like to hear messages that they like. The Oscars is a time were supporters of Trump would also find out other ideas. Ideas showing a dislike of Trump and his policies, not what they would like to hear.
So I do not think that = “the most likely effect of this will be to make him even more popular.”
The Oscars has been a medium to speak about current events and political issues for a long time, and I wouldn’t begrudge anyone continuing the tradition. But this attitude is problematic in my view. Consider this board as an example to illustrate. To foster discussion, many times threads need to be directed to stay on topic. If every thread were interrupted with unrelated but legitimate complaints about off topic things, the venue for discussion is harmed. That’s what would happen if there were a ‘speak out against Trump’ all the time strategy. It becomes background noise to be ignored.
As a cathartic release it may be worthwhile, but I question whether this approach would be effective at any kind of substantive result.
I guarantee you’ll be tired of hearing it before I give up on saying it; but I also guarantee I’m tired of hearing about him. If you don’t like hearing it, work harder to get him out of office.
Martini, moderates always give activists the advice to do things in moderation. I recommend rereading “Letter from a Birmingham Jail” for a refutation of this advice.
As I noted it is very important to show the world that there is not only dissent in America, but most important: to show the world that dissenters are not shot or made to lose their jobs because of that dissent. And letting the world know it as often as possible is important too.
Really Bone. It is not only one of the best messages to tell to the world, but it is a message that many authoritarians of the world do not want their citizens to hear and they can not control it.
I really don’t think there is any risk of this not already being known. I fully expect folks at the Oscars to speak out loud and often and have no issue with it. My choice if I want to watch. I don’t think it has some far reaching impact though. I was mostly trying to address the approach of speaking out all the time at every opportunity in unrelated venues which is the gist of the sentiment being expressed. I think folks would tune that out.
“The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt.”
- John Philpot Curran’s.
Indeed, that eternal vigilance has to be a constant thing. While it is true that just dissenting at the Oscars is not a big deal, the biggest deal is what happens before or after. That all the world will **continue **to see that in America no harm comes to the ones dissenting in public and that they will continue to do so in the future.
I agree to some extent in the sense that an actor or director receiving an award for a work that is entirely non-political, who then inserts politics into an acceptance speech completely out of context, may be seen as grandstanding in an unwelcome fashion. However, several arguments can be made in support of such speech.
One is that, arguably but I think quite definitively, this is far from a normal political situation where it’s simply a matter of candidate “A” winning an election whereas Hollywood supported candidate “B”. I think it would be wise to recognize that this is in many ways an extraordinary electoral development taking things into uncharted territory whose risks are already plainly in evidence, and that more than ordinary levels of dissent are justifiable, for tangible and actionable reasons such as enlisting Congressional support. Even as extreme an ideologue as Mitch McConnell has already chided Trump that you don’t send out tweets demeaning federal judges, and a number of others have come out strongly against the ban.
Another is that Hollywood is, at least in part, in the business of producing social and political commentary and/or its principals have personal involvement in the issues, so in the cases of many films they are genuinely invested in the issues and have a legitimate function in using the Oscars to further their views, as Alejandro Iñárritu did so eloquently last year. This year, Oscar-nominated Iranian director Asghar Farhadi may be banned from attending the Oscars, so to some of the attendees, at least, this is personal.
A final comment is that, in response to Rilchiam arguing that nothing substantive can be said in a short Oscar acceptance speech anyway, the example of Iñárritu last year shows us that much can be said in a few well-chosen words. And even when nothing particularly new or substantive is said, a recurring message in exceptional circumstances serves to bolster and encourage a common cause.
All of that said, I suspect that although we’ll undoubtedly hear about Trump during the event, I don’t think it will be nearly as pervasive as some seem to fear.
And if we took your advice we would get “How bad could it possibly be if no one is complaining about him?” so there is no right way to oppose Trump, is there?
You wouldn’t get that advice the first 562,387 times.
You want to end everything with “[del]Carthago[/del] Trumpo delenda est”, knock yourselves out. I suspect Cato the Elder had much the same effect on the Roman Senate.
Regards,
Shodan
You would have a point if it were one person repeating the same thing 562, 387 times…so I guess you don’t have a point, do you?
Two different groups of people.
Group #1, like most of the people in this thread, hate Trump and love hearing others express that opinion. That’s the joy of the echo chamber. Many of the folks in Group #1 like nothing more than hearing their own opinions expressed by other people. Trump = bad; SAY IT AGAIN!!! Hit that pleasure center in my brain!!
But it’s also been said here that by constant repetition, folks who don’t like Trump (Group #2) might eventually see the light. That this constant haranguing serves some larger purpose than just feeding the echo chamber. But folks in Group #2 aren’t going to listen to a bunch of “Hollywood Liberals”. They like Trump, in part, because he thumbs his nose at folks like that. This will make him more popular with that Group. Perhaps you were thinking that I was saying Group #2 would expand. No, that’s not what I meant. Just that Trump haters would continue their hate, and Trump supporters would find even more reason to keep supporting him.
Well - we do not know whether the Senate was bored. But we do know what happened to Carthago.
I have a point because it isn’t one person. It’s every liberal in the country screaming in frustration that their anointed candidate managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Over and over and over…
Regards,
Shodan
The sentiment is understandable, but I don’t think it’s a principle to live by. Let’s use a more concrete example. The first thread in MPSIMS is about Bathroom Signs. I would say that’s probably not an appropriate place to espouse the eternal vigilance that is the anti-Trump type protests. Would you agree? Ignoring for the sake of argument the rules of that forum, but even still, not an effective way to get the message across. If you agree with that, then it’s just a matter of degree.
Is that what you think this is about? I don’t give a fuck about Hillary losing. We have put a thoroughly despicable, ignorant and unqualified asshole in the White House. We have to forget partisan politics for awhile and try to save our country. Are you with us?
Actually, if not for the rules, I would indeed be posting fuck Trump sentiments in all threads on the SDMB. It’s not time for “business as usual,” it’s a fight for the soul and survival of our country. This matters a great deal.