I'm fucking mad at the people in the US who support and promote adult bullies.

[BobLibDem]

Unfortunately, bullies are a part of everyday life. Every office, every plant has its share of bullies and toadies. Some see this as part of the natural order and thus make excuses for Trump’s bullying. Just like a fight on the elementary school playground, “he hit me first” is seen as a valid excuse for hurting someone. If Trump’s behavior doesn’t shock and anger you, I suspect it’s because you’ve become so used to this kind of behavior that you think it’s normal. But it isn’t. Trump is a punk and a coward. True leaders don’t seek to even the score, they seek to find common ground and build something positive.

[bobot]

MyFootsZZZ, That you are upset is understandable, but do not feel sad. Why feel sad about something you have no control over- something that someone else does?

And on another note:

@Ludovic

It was pretty much impossible that Trump attacked first. Think about your typical Trump-Megyn pair, standing eye to eye, and try to imagine making that swing with your fist and you’ll see that the geometry of the situation is pretty ludicrous.

Beauty!

[JRDelirious]

People misread Machiavelli as saying it’s “better” to be feared than loved, when what he wrote was that you can inspire fear more effectively than love so it’s a better use of resources. But he also says you should prefer to be both (i.e. respected) and that you should avoid becoming -hated-.

BTW I agree with Debaser in that Fox was transparently trying to pile on and it blew up in their faces. The WAY he chose to “hit back” was OTOH vulgar and unpresidential.

[purplehearingaid]

@Starving_Artist

Donald Trump isn’t a bully. He really isn’t. What he is, is strong, and when someone hits him, he hits them back a lot harder. This serves two purposes: one, the offending party learns their lesson and typically doesn’t attack him again; and two, most of the people who see what happened learn not to attack him either. Trump rarely attacks people who haven’t attacked him first.

Imagine what it would have been like if when you were bullied, you’d had the power and ability to hit those bullies back so hard they’d never mess with you again. And in so doing, other bullies had seen what happened and decided they’d better not mess with you either. Your life would have been much easier and you’d have had to contend with far fewer attempts at bullying you, wouldn’t you? You’d have come out ahead and lived a much happier life. You’d have had respect not only from your classmates or co-workers, but most likely from the people who tried to bully you too. And you’d have had more respect for yourself too, I’ll bet. That’s how Donald Trump lives his life. He talked about it decades ago in his book The Art of the Deal.

It’s late and I have to call it a night, but much of what gets labelled hatred when it comes to illegal immigrants and gays and mandated birth control and so forth isn’t really hatred at all, but mere disapproval or disagreement. Genuine hatred does exist to certain degree, but in my experience it’s dwarfed by the number of people who simply disapprove of certain behaviors and get labelled haters as a consequence. I know quite a few people who disapprove of illegal immigration, for example, including some Hispanics who’re resentful that they paid money and applied for visas and waited their turn to get here only to see others come flooding into the country illegally and getting welfare and food stamps and drivers’ licenses. None of these people hate Hispanics (especially the ones who are Hispanic themselves), but it seems that to the left one must ignore or overlook any and all behavior by anyone not a white male or Christian, no matter how illegal or how destructive or how harmful it is, or get labelled a hater, racist, sexist or whatever. It’s ridiculous. And it’s a large part of why Donald Trump is doing so well in the polls. People are sick and tired of being lied about and called names simply because they want issues that trouble them addressed, and they’re sick and tired of politicians who don’t have the courage to do anything about them.

I thought it was so immature when Trump made his remark about Rich Perry’s
eyeglasses ! That is something I expect to hear from a kid not a grown man running for president. I would not call him strong at all , if he was so strong there would be no needs to yelling at people all the time . I see it as sign of weaken , a man that is sure of himself does not need to made fun of other people !

[inscrutable]

@Starving_Artist

…it seems that to the left one must ignore or overlook any and all behavior by anyone not a white male or Christian, no matter how illegal or how destructive or how harmful it is, or get labelled a hater, racist, sexist or whatever. It’s ridiculous. And it’s a large part of why Donald Trump is doing so well in the polls. People are sick and tired of being lied about and called names simply because they want issues that trouble them addressed, and they’re sick and tired of politicians who don’t have the courage to do anything about them.

this

[jz78817]

@Starving_Artist

Donald Trump isn’t a bully. He really isn’t. What he is, is strong, and when someone hits him, he hits them back a lot harder. This serves two purposes: one, the offending party learns their lesson and typically doesn’t attack him again;

this supposes that Trump actually has any “lesson” to teach.

[GIGObuster]

@inscrutable

this

Not really, as I pointed on another subject it is possible that hate and anti-science will be able to make the Republicans win the next election, but just as the Republicans that found how wrong they were about prohibition, Republicans have another thing coming after their (possible) pyrrhic victory.

Donald Trump is the harbinger of GOP doom: The devastating history lesson that Republicans are completely ignoring

…

There were obviously many factors that contributed to California’s evolution into the deep-blue state it is today, from demographics to the culture war. But none of those things come close to the damage that then-Governor Pete Wilson did to the longterm interest of the California Republican Party in 1994, when he scapegoated Latino immigrants as the cause of all the state’s woes.

Wilson was running for re-election, and as part of his campaign to distract from the economic failure of his first term and increase turnout among his base, he ran on a platform promising to crack down on undocumented workers, and enthusiastically supported the infamous Prop 187, which set up a statewide system designed to deny any kind of benefits to undocumented workers, including K-12 education and all forms of health care.

(He also supported a constitutional amendment to repeal birthright citizenship, currently guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.)

…

Wilson ultimately won the race, and the proposition passed with a 57 percent majority. Nativists everywhere applauded and cheered.

Unfortunately, they apparently didn’t know how to count. They failed to recognize that Latinos were the fastest growing ethnic minority in the state, and knew very well that all this “concern” about undocumented immigration stemmed from a nativist impulse that had little to do with economics and everything to do with bigotry.

…

I don’t know if God was on their side, but Latinos certainly did not put up with it. The Republicans lost the Hispanic vote in California and have almost zero chance of getting it back. The Hispanic population saw the ethnic hatred on display during that period, hatred which was enthusiastically stoked by the Republican Party of California.

The demographic trends in the state guarantee that the GOP will be in the minority in California for a very long time to come. And needless to say, if anyone thought that after 20 years a younger generation might forget why their parents rejected the Republicans and give them another look, the primal scream we are currently witnessing in the 2016 presidential primary is giving them quite a refresher course.

[Inigo_Montoya]

You know when I was a tiny little sprog there was this red headed kid about twice my size, he honest to god look just like Patrick Renna, whose sole purpose in life was to bloody my nose and/or mock me to tears. Ma always said to just ignore him and he’d go away and pick on someone else. It wasn’t until much later that I realized the only real way to deal with a bully is to put him down hard, to make an example of him and of your intolerance of bullies; and permanently to keep him from exacting revenge later on. Machiavelli should be taught in kindergarten.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

@inscrutable

this

-1

[BrainGlutton]

@iiandyiiii

How had Obama attacked Trump when Trump starting inventing truly ridiculous crap about him?

By becoming president.

[Sattua]

@BobLibDem

Unfortunately, bullies are a part of everyday life. Every office, every plant has its share of bullies and toadies. Some see this as part of the natural order and thus make excuses for Trump’s bullying. Just like a fight on the elementary school playground, “he hit me first” is seen as a valid excuse for hurting someone. If Trump’s behavior doesn’t shock and anger you, I suspect it’s because you’ve become so used to this kind of behavior that you think it’s normal. But it isn’t. Trump is a punk and a coward. True leaders don’t seek to even the score, they seek to find common ground and build something positive.

But wait. You spent the first part of your post saying it’s normal.

[andros]

@Starving_Artist

it seems that to the left one must ignore or overlook any and all behavior by anyone not a white male or Christian, no matter how illegal or how destructive or how harmful it is, or get labelled a hater, racist, sexist or whatever.

You know, I’m honestly sorry you feel that way. It must suck a lot to have that constantly hanging over you.

I think it happens a lot, on all sides. One cannot decry illegal immigration without facing issues of anti-Latino racism; one cannot decry Israeli actions without facing issues of antisemitism. Some of it, perhaps, is a sense of what comes around goes around: 25 years ago I was regularly called a faggot. Now I get to call people bigots when they try to call me that. I grew up with rampant sexism. Now I get to call it out, with more people behind me.

Mostly, I think it’s a symptom of increased polarization and anger in the Internet Age, part of a broad convulsion of change and accompanying future shock.
I think you’re entirely wrong, and I don’t think that “the left” overlooks illegal, destructive, or harmful behavior by people of color or nonChristians or women or gays. But I get that you feel that way and I get why you feel that way. And for the part, however small, I have played in that, I am truly sorry.

(As for your apologia for bullying, you’re on your own, 'cos that’s bullshit. I grok where you’re coming from there, too, and it’s bullshit.)

[Acsenray]

@VinylTurnip

And who knows? Maybe today I, too, would have a name synonymous with comically tacky ostentation, unchecked ego, serial bankruptcy, and the most ridiculous hairpiece in the history of mankind.

Nitpick: It’s a combover. A hairpiece would be an improvement.

@Debaser

Trump is a blowhard and a moron, but I wouldn’t characterize him as a bully. He’s probably an asshole to work for, but so is Hillary Clinton. Anybody that makes it to that level of success has to have a type A personality.

The difference is that while Hillary Clinton might be a bully in private to her employees, Trump bullies people in public for no apparent reason other than he enjoys doing it.

[inscrutable]

@GIGObuster

Not really, as I pointed on another subject it is possible that hate and anti-science will be able to make the Republicans win the next election, but just as the Republicans that found how wrong they were about prohibition, Republicans have another thing coming after their (possible) pyrrhic victory.

Maybe not so much “hate”, but rather, the concern over an increasing proportion of the population that “costs” more than it contributes.

[BrainGlutton]

@inscrutable

Maybe not so much “hate”, but rather, the concern over an increasing proportion of the population that “costs” more than it contributes.

That population exists, but you will find it in the Hamptons, not in the 'hood.

[BobLibDem]

@Sattua

But wait. You spent the first part of your post saying it’s normal.

Just because something is common doesn’t make it normal behavior. We have bullies, they are common but they are not normal.

[GIGObuster]

@inscrutable

Maybe not so much “hate”, but rather, the concern over an increasing proportion of the population that “costs” more than it contributes.

“No good. I’ve known too many Spaniards.”

Sorry, but even in the SDMB I had already had an encounter with fake environmentalists, they do overlap a lot with nativists.

SPLC Report: Nativists Appealing to Environmentalists are 'Wolves in Sheep's...

Seeking to deflect charges of racism, anti-immigration activists have launched a cynical campaign to recruit environmentalists to their cause by blaming immigrants for urban sprawl, overconsumption and a host of other environmental problems, according to a report issued today by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The report – Greenwash: Nativists, Environmentalism & the Hypocrisy of Hate – describes how right-wing nativists are targeting the mainstream environmental movement with advertisements, websites and even a newly formed “progressive” organization that purports to represent liberals who believe immigration must be radically curtailed to preserve the environment.

“The key players behind this effort are nothing less than wolves in sheep’s clothing,” said Mark Potok, director of the SPLC’s Intelligence Project. “Environmentalists should not fall for this canard. These are hard-line nativists, some of whom have ties to white nationalists, and their primary interest is to radically restrict Latino immigration. Preservation of the environment is hardly their real priority.”

This is just the latest attempt by nativist forces to appear as something they are not. For example, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) has been behind the creation of three other front groups that supposedly represented African Americans (Choose Black America), Latino Americans (You Don’t Speak for Me!) and labor (Coalition for the Future American Worker). In fact, FAIR had its own white spokesman double as a press representative for the first two organizations and actually set up Choose Black America on its own.

Greenwash takes a close look at the players behind this new effort and reveals the professional and financial ties to members of Congress and organizations with abysmal environmental records.

The report also notes that the central argument of the greenwashing campaign – the belief that immigration leads to environmental degradation – has been largely rejected by the mainstream environmental movement. Greenwash also includes a timeline of “greenwashing” efforts by anti-immigration groups beginning in 1968.

Among the other findings in the report:

• NumbersUSA, a group headed by Roy Beck, one of the key activists leading the greenwashing effort, has paid nearly half a million dollars to NewsMax Media, a far-right online news service that has described global warming as a “religion” that is “impervious to evidence” and has pilloried conservationists as “anti-mankind.”

Now, that last group, NumbersUSA, was recently involved in the effort to turn what it was a humanitarian crisis into a border crisis by astroturfing the Republican party into doing their nativist bidding.

It is indeed a big point that I have many many times before with many conservatives that I do think have not fallen into the dark side yet: there is a lot of navitee, plain ignorance and worse: a good number of conservatives that do know what the racist agenda is and agree with it.

Until I see many official, no uncertain statements, that the Republicans are telling those groups to take a hike it is very insulting to an Hispanic or a minority that we should ignore the crazy elephant in the room.

[garygnu]

Trump’s first reaction to an affront is to insult. That’s bully behavior. It doesn’t matter if he’s not attacking first. He’s not contradicting or rebbutting, just lashing out.

[Starving_Artist]

No, bullying behavior is when you take it upon yourself to attack someone for no apparent reason and generally for no motive other than the bully’s amusement.

Trump responds forcefully to put an end to bullying or other wrongful behavior aimed at him and there’s nothing at all wrong with that.

The fact that some of the posters here think that hitting back is ‘bad’, and that they ‘might’ be justified in trying to hold the bully who’d kicked them in such a way that he couldn’t kick them again (assuming they had the strength and size to do that in the first place, which they probably didn’t or the bully wouldn’t have attacked them in the first place) is probably a large part of the reason why bullying is so prevalent in our liberal dominated school system and society today. Bullies know they have nothing to lose so why not go for it?

[VinylTurnip]

@garygnu

Trump’s first reaction to an affront is to insult. That’s bully behavior. It doesn’t matter if he’s not attacking first. He’s not contradicting or rebbutting, just lashing out.

I don’t even mind that, really, it’s just that he’s so embarrassingly bad at it. Any 12-year-old could craft cleverer insults. Maybe he should hire a few.