No, Ace. Actually that wasn’t what I was referring to.
Take the partisan blinders off. It makes reading easier.
Milossarian, the only thing of note in that thread is you being dismissive. That’s not partisanship, that’s etiquette.
Pipe down yourself, Junior. For the record, I’m neither liberal nor conservative.
I don’t have to find the ridiculous “all conservatives are evil” “stawman.” All I have to do is point to the post of yours at the top of this page and say that you’re painting all conservatives with the same broad brush. That’s stereotyping, and it’s wrong regardless of which political idealogue holds the brush.
Well, shoot. Rephrase that last post to read " … point to the post of yours at the top of page 2 of this thread …"
Oh, and if we’re talking about gobear, who takes what Susan Sontag and a bunch of posters to be named later say and smears liberals with a created stereotype, here:
I’m interested to know how he would respond to this attack on his position:
Would you agree with yourself that this post was ignorant and demeaning? I personally don’t have a problem with you using stereotypes, but if you think four posters at the SDMB is counter-proof to any argument:
Then we’ll get four posters here to go on record as recognizing the existence of true evil, and therefore, consistent with your stated policies, you must retract your liberal sterotype. That is, if you have any honor or intellectual consistency.
Ace:
While I don’t condone gobear’s phrasing in the “weakness of the liberal viewpoint” quote you pulled above, note what he’s actually saying. He’s not saying “All liberals believe this.” He’s saying that some liberals, including Susan Sontag, voiced that opinion. Which is true. Likewise, he’s not saying that liberals can’t recognize true evil, but that the liberal viewpoint doesn’t recognize true evil.
As I said, I disagree with the tone he used, but he’s not painting all liberals with the same broad brush you want to use on conservatives. Do you see the difference?
Sauron, I don’t see the difference when gobear says “the liberal viewpoint.” If he had said “Some liberal viewpoints,” or “some views along the liberal spectrum.”, rather than a weakness of the whole, I would agree with you, that there would be a difference. Casting aspersions on “the” liberal viewpoint, as if it were monolithic and Susan Sontag speaks for it, is the same stereotyping he decries. I’m not the only poster who noted this.
The brush we use is the same. I could use the gobear’s bowdlerized phrasing, and it would come out thusly:
I don’t think that’s an improvement, do you?
Ace, do you even bother to read the bilge you spew? NOWHERE did I stereotype ALL liberals. Read the excerpt again.
See, some liberals, as opposed to every liberal. Moreover, you skipped right over my post on the first page which expressed admiration for liberal with well-thought-out positions, like Molly Ivins, and the petitio pentendi, “to be liberal is to be morally superior” crowd, like Michael Moore.
So youare either a fool, a liar, or functionally illiterate: whiich is it? Ace, me old beauty, you are Peter Lorre to my Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca:
And you’ll notice I didn’t call all liberals fools, liars or functionally illiterate–just you, Ace, just you. I have more sense than to think that any of the intelligent lefties here condone your nonsense, ya wanker.
gobear, that some liberals may be unable to recognize evil as evil is no doubt correct. However, that this can be extrapolated to a weakness of “The liberal viewpoint” is an entirely inaccurate use of sterotypes.
Similarly, if I noted that you, gobear, were a disingenuous, dishonorable, and rude debater in the political arena, I would be unable to extrapolate this to all conservatives, even if it were true. I hope that’s clear enough for you.
That is my critique of one of liberalism’s flaws; if you disagree, boo-friggin’-hoo.
Don’t use words you don’t understand, Skippy. To call me disingenuous is to call me dishonest, and I think I’ve proven who the liar is here. Moreover, you are about as familiar with the concept of honor as a whelk is with the Sahara. And as far as being rude, welcome to the Pit. This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no fooling around.
In re your criticisms, I quote Mark Twain as a retort: “I find that I can live without the good opinion of morons.”
I’ll go there:
I think the liberal viewpoint attracts a disproportionate level of stupid and naive people, and even more of the self-righteous, self-congratulatory whiners whose lack of experience or reasoning ability nevertheless does precious little to thwart their earnest certainty that they have all the answers and know better.
That’s pretty obvious.
Us conservatives get our share of wingnuts, too. But I prefer the conservative brand of nut, myself. I can deal with a selfish, self-motivated and intolerant person, and those people can change. Stupid, naive and self-righteous is usually a fatally self-perpetuating combination.
RE: liberal vs. conservative viewpoints.
There is a republican platform, there is a democratic platform. While it is generally true that one is more liberal than the other, neither really should be considered the ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’ viewpoint.
Perhaps the esteemed mr. gobear can show me the appropriate website which describes the ‘approved’ liberal viewpoint, so that I can either agree or disagree.
Specifically, I’d love to see where it says
So, yes, that was a wide painting brush of stereo type there, one that you obviously don’t believe belongs to all liberals, but apparently you think it’s part of the ascribed ‘liberal viewpoint’. That’d be like me suggesting that the ‘conservative viewpoint wishes to protect all human life until it’s born’. Certainly some conservatives are strongly pro life, but the characterization is snarky. Many liberals may believe in attempting to understand why abberant behavior exists, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they wish to blame everyone else etc, or that it is a foundation of the liberal view.
WRT the rest of this wreck of a thread - I’ve personally not noted that mischaracterizations, ad hominum attacks, snarkiness etc. is the province of only one viewpoint or the other, both on this board and in real life. As with many situations, 'taint black/white.
Scylla, I’m glad you think it obvious that “stupid, naive, and self-congratulating people” are mostly liberals.
That post of yours was pretty naive and horridly self-congratulating, to the point where it can only be called stupid as well. Thanks for your efforts in adding to a higher tone on this board.
Perhaps you would put friend gobear in the “conservative wingnut” division that you so charitably admit exists?
Again, that’s something that I see to be generally true of American liberal thought. Sorry, I can’t take the time to describe each and every individual liberal’s unique perspective, but wiith millions of liberals in America, that would really slow down the server. You can disagree with me all you like, but you don’t get to vote on what I think.
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And yet, that’s not what I said, is it?
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I hope that doesn’t make me a liberal.
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You’re welcome.
No, but I’ll put you in the stupid, naive, and self-righteous category of liberal wingnuts. Don’t worry. You’ll be among friends.
What a fine retraction - a truly fine moment in the history of honorable acts. “Some guy I lazily slandered didn’t like it, so I’ll blow him off switch to slandering someone else instead”.
Go show your mother what a fine job she did teaching you about responsibility and integrity.
“that’s obvious”? gotcha. Cool. So the next time I’m generalizing to the max, all I need to say is ‘that’s pretty obvious’ what a time saver.
“self congratualtory whiners whose lack of experience or reasoning ability” - so, you’re assuming the ‘smugness’ quotient for conservatives, then, eh?
nope, not at all, but I do have the right to call you on ascribing what you think onto others, without proof as you’ve done here. So, I’d have had no quibble w/your assertion if it’d been “IMHO, the liberal viewpoint blah blah blah” but the flat out assertion is unsupportable, as you’ve noted here (you can’t question all liberals as to their viewpoint etc.).
Wring:
::shrug:: I didn’t make the world the way it is.
Touche, and true.