Not caring to be wished a Merry Christmas is insulting to Canadian culture?
My belief here is that Christmas has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. Sure, it began as a celebration of the birth of Jesus*, but in America (and Britain, for that matter, and I presume Canada) it’s basically just a holiday which falls at a time when people in most of the Western world could use some cheering up because it’s fucking cold/wet/snowy/dreary.
My mother, a practicing Hindu, celebrates Christmas. She even puts up a tree- as did most of our Hindu friends (in Britain). She doesn’t celebrate the birth of Jesus at Christmas, though - she celebrates the idea of good will to all men, the joy of giving, and pretty decorations. I’m a deist, and it doesn’t offend me at all. She also believes (as a first-generation immigrant) that she ought to at least pay lip service to the culture (if not the faith) of her chosen home. I’m not quite as sold on that, but I do generally accept the “when in Rome” philosophy.
It’s not as though “Happy Holidays” is any less offensive, unless you say it year round.
Calling it “the holiday season” may be more inclusive vis-a-vis Jews and African-Americans who celebrate Kwanzaa (not that any black people I know do), and pagans (maybe- I doubt if anyone who says Happy Holidays is thinking of pagans when they say it)*, but that just makes it an even bigger “up yours” to Muslims, Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, Confucians, adherents of Baha’i, and some atheists, and so on. Thus, your choice as a non-Christian is to be offended as part of a large group or part of a slightly smaller but more offended group. Or to stop being offended.
*I apologise to adherents of any other faiths which celebrate a holiday around December.
This is not a universal feeling. Christmas to me has always been a Christian holiday and always will be. I would never have a tree, never put up decorations, don’t exchange gifts. It’s not a holiday I celebrate. I either go with other Jewish friends for Chinese food or go skiing.
There are many secular aspects to Christmas, but to me, at its heart, it’s still a Christian religious holiday.
See, that’s just a silly thing to say. “Absolutely” nothing? Bullshit. Christmas is a holiday with both secular and religious components.
It’s a secular holiday. Lot’s of non-Christians and non-religious people celebrate it. But it’s also a religious holiday. It’s the second-most important date on the Christian calendar, I can’t walk downtown without tripping over Salvation Army volunteers, and so on. Ignoring either half of the holiday is foolish.
I’m sure lots of practicing Hindus are just fine celebrating the secular holiday. I’m sure you could come up with plenty of more examples if you tried. But if someone doesn’t celebrate the holiday because of the religious half, why say Merry Christmas to them? What possible purpose can it serve to say Merry Christmas to an observant Jewish person, when you know they’re Jewish, when you know they don’t celebrate Christmas for religious reasons, and when there are so many other ways to express your good wishes towards them?
Oh no. I would be in the wrong in that scenario. Most definitely. I’ve already stated that I would comply. I won’t be telling Telemark Merry Christmas, even though I think he’s an asshole.
I’m not suggesting that Jews and Muslims should eat the forbidden fruits offered them, and if you’ve invited them you’d be an asshole for not providing decent alternatives. That’s their religion and they really have no choice. There’s nothing “forbidden” in receiving Christmas salutations, for Muslims, Jews or atheists .
Nice. But again, let me ask: why do you wish people Merry Christmas? For them? Or for you?
It’s not. It’s a big deal to a very small minority of people for sincere reasons, and a big deal to a slightly larger group (mostly on the right) for insincere reasons, among which are that it’s a great fundraiser (as mentioned) and it gets the troops fired up when you tell them that there’s a WAR ON CHRISTMAS!!!ONOZ!!!
The vast majority of people don’t freakin’ care, atheist, agnostic or generally religious in any number of flavors.
Do you celebrate Thanksgiving, or take offense if someone wishes you a happy one? It’s as much a religious holiday as Christmas.
That said, I just re-read the discussion of your post, and I agree that if somebody wishes you a Merry Christmas against your clearly expressed wish, you have every right to be offended. I’m speaking more of the general random wishes to strangers/by store clerks/on TV, etc.
See above. I wouldn’t wish somebody a Merry Christmas unless I knew they celebrated it (or at least weren’t offended by it). However, when the default position is that of celebrating Christmas, taking offense when being wished such by a stranger is RO, in my view.
Hey **Flying Dutchman **- happy birthday!
I hope I don’t get flamed for this, but here goes.
Why do people do the “Merry Christmas” stuff in the first place? Why reserve your well wishes to only this time of year? Why not have a Christmas mood all the time instead of saving it for the “season”? What is it about Christmas that makes people feel like they have to not only be extra friendly and fake-happy, but compel other people to be likewise?
People act normal during other holidays. But when it comes to Christmas, they suddenly act like everyone who isn’t wearing a stupid Santa hat or wearing a big fake grin or saying “MERRY CHRISTMAS!” to everyone they meet is a Scrooge. I can see how if didn’t celebrate Christmas, for religious or whatever reason, all of it would seriously work my nerves. Because I do celebrate it and it annoys me.
No it isn’t.
It’s origin likely is. Now, not so much, I agree.
What did I do to make me an asshole? I can’t come up with a rationale for that. I certainly don’t have any ill will towards you.
Oh well, have a nice day.
Not at all. Why do you ask?
The first Thanksgiving Proclamation, October 3, 1789:
Ceremonial deism? Perhaps - but ceremonial religion is still religion.
Who did you think the Pilgrims were giving thanks to?
Perhaps I cling to much to the innocence and simplicity of Christmases of my early years where you couldn’t possibly offend anyone by wishing them a Merry Christmas.
Why, you politely suggested that it might be nice if people who know you’re Jewish don’t wish you Merry Christmas. How do you sleep at night, we can only wonder.
I agree that Thanksgiving has religious origins, but to me, at least, it has lost that connection. Christmas for me, never has. I could see it happening for future generations perhaps.
Get back to us when Thanksgiving and the weeks leading up to it are celebrated with special masses in Christian churches. Christmas and Advent are huge religious events, major dates in the Christian calendar, and are centrepieces of Christian religions. Thanksgiving has religious overtones.
And here is the 2008 Thanksgiving Proclamation, also religious.