I am overwhelmed in life right now. In November I met a wonderful woman and I moved in with her a month later. We are getting married in November (if we can find a Rabbi who will just say Yes).
My parents decided to move to another state because I moved out of the house. While cleaning it to go on the market my father moved some things that my mother said to leave alone.
While he was moving them he fell and broke his ankle. He had to have surgery and while he was in rehab #1 the surgeon saw on X-rays that the plate moved so he needed a second operation to remove the plate and put a rod in.
This sent him to Rehab #2. While he was there he was not receiving the care he should have an got a urinary tract infection. The rehab place sent him back to the hospital and while there he was diagnosed with urosepsis.
While this was going on my fiancee was bit by her (our) cat because she accidently stepped on him. The bite became infected and she had to go into the hospital for 8 days. She still has not fully recovered and is tired. In addition to this, one of her employers has chosen to not renew her contract so she has lost one of her jobs.
Next is the topping on the cake. Earlier this year, my mother was diagnosed with Graves Disease. She was being treated by a doctor but the medication didn’t seem to be working. Her legs were swelling and then she had fluid in her abdomen aka Ascites . She went for a CAT scan and it showed liver cirrhosis and an enlarged ovary. She has seen a Gynecologist regarding that issue. The doctor said the ovary has to come our then he called her the other day and wants to refer her to an Oncologist because of her blood results.
From my online searching having Graves Disease leads to an increased risk of Ovarian Cancer. It’s not far to make the jump that if she has Ovarian Cancer it spread to the Liver and is the cause of the cirrhosis. From what I read Ascites is most commonly due to cirrhosis, severe liver disease or metastatic cancer.
To cycle back to the wedding. I am Jewish and while not very observant my fiancee is more observant that I am. She wants the wedding ceremony to be performed by an Orthodox Rabbi. The one’s we have spoke to so far need me to prove I am Jewish to their satisfaction and have all the food served be kosher. The venue we chose , signed a contract with and have given a deposit and made the first two payments to does not have a kosher kitchen. They did agree to bring in from an outside caterer kosher meals for the guests who keep kosher. In order to bring in outside caterer we are looking at 50-60 per person which is money we can’t afford now.
Pairing down the guest list is NOT an option because we are close to the minimum for the venue already.
Lastly because until I met the wonderful woman I have in my life I dated women with no jobs or low paying jobs and I always paid for everything. I am in debt by approximately 60 thousand dollars and with the loss of overtime at my job I am finding it hard to cover my bills, put money towards the wedding and contribute to our household. My fiancee does know about my debt and is accepting about it but says and I agree that I need to do something about it. I can’t take a second job now because my parents need me after work because of their medical issues. I did sign up with a company that does debt settlement but I have to save up so there is a fund to offer. I could build up that pool faster if I stopped making all my credit card payments but I’m quite afraid if I stop paying entirely I will be sued.
If so, get to a bankruptcy lawyer and do it yesterday.
You are describing the classic bankruptcy case (I know, I was one) - maxed-out every source of loans and still can’t get head above water.
Do this (it takes 90 days, typically) BEFORE you get married.
You will not be able to borrow at normal rates for several years, but there are car dealers who will scana the bkrpy filing for sales leads, and, after the 2008 mortgage meltdown, FHA will do mortgage loans after 2 years.
I now have a FICO of 696, based largely on a secured credit card backed by good old Capital One cards.
You can’t dump student loans and most taxes cannot be discharged.* Mortgages (assuming they use the property as collateral) cannot be discharged without throwing the house into the proceedings.
Credit cards, personal loans and all unsecured debts except above will go away.
In CA, 2013, the individual exemption was $175K. Primary residence cannot be seized unless it is over $X (a very high X) in value.
Do not play games and try to hide assets - gifts to family, etc. - such tricks generally do not work and will just piss off the court.
Yes, there is life after Chap 7 - there are a whole lot of scare stories - mainly promoted by credit card companies and large banks. Find out what will happen to YOU in YOUR jurisdiction (it is a Federal issue - States do not get to define the process) at this TIME.
LOOK INTO IT - you owe it to both your fiancee and yourself.
I did dump a CA tax lien - still not sure why they have that loophole, but I’ll take it!
Is there any way you can postpone the wedding? You have too much on your plate right now, and this is one thing you can potentially remove (at least temporarily).
I’m not an expert on bankruptcy law. Is it possible that if you declare bankruptcy after getting married that your wife’s assets could be made part of the bankruptcy settlement, and that her credit rating could be ruined along with yours? You need to figure this out before getting married.
The possibility of a spouse’s assets being seized and/or the bankruptcy hitting a spouse’s credit was my big concern.
Please look into this - every bankruptcy lawyer I’ve dealt with will do a 15-30 minute initial consultation without charge. Have all your debts and their totals one one sheet, your cash* and cash flow on another.
Mine was a simple single-person with tax, medical, and credit card debts (many are past Statue of Limitations*). It cost about $1000 - and yes, the bankruptcy lawyers demand cash in advance. They’re not stupid.
Heads Up! Now that simply everything is on a database which gets backed up and will live forever, this is a biggie. The debt Statue of Limitations does NOT make the debt go away - it simply means the creditor cannot use the courts to enforce the debt. The Debt Remains Forever. In the past, this was not an issue unless you died while the creditor was still after you. Eventually, even the folks who buy dead loans for $0.05 on the dollar and try to trick you into making a payment** will give up.
Now, it is entirely possible for someone to run the obits past their collection of dead loans. I expect to see these people showing up in Probate. If they can produce the paper (and I have seen them pull up 10 year old credit card charge slips), they are likely to collect.
** - if you get a call bout some dead bill and the caller tells you he can “get the boss to give you a break” if only you show some interest in paying it off - “say, even $10 - anything I can show the boss” - DO NOT DO IT.
That $10 resets the Statue of Limitations ticker (it counts as “activity on the account”) and now they CAN sue your ass - and will.
All because of the $10.
I’d want to postpone the wedding, too. I know you are in love, but you just met her last November and you are getting married a year later? It doesn’t hurt to date a few years, and if the love is strong, it will last. I see you made the deposit and two payments, but you literally said you can’t afford to pay for the outside caterer.
I don’t think it’s fair to your fiancé to bring 60K worth of debt into the marriage. I think she would understand that if you are to have the marriage she wants - kosher - then it might need to wait just a little bit?
But yes, look into bankruptcy. You need help. God luck.
Can you have a small private wedding in November, then have the big celebration later on after things calm down? Personally I think bankruptcy may be a good idea, it doesn’t sound like you’d be able to clear up $60,000 in debt in the near future, but short of that you can see if you can settle with some of your debtors and shift the debt to long term lower interest form. Read what usedtobe has posted about bankruptcy, it’s not a total ‘get of jail free’ card and it will stick with you for life.
Cancel the wedding, but not the date: Turn it into a much smaller “engagement party”.
Be open and explain why-- (not the 60 grand!)–Just say that your parents’ health is more important, and don’t hesitate to give enough details to derail any nasty gossiping . People will understand.
The engagement party can be small, intimate and meaningful for you and your love.It may boost your emotional strength, so the two of you can tackle legal and financial problems, before they get even more complicated.
You can get married a year from now, and will probably feel even better about it.
If the money for the wedding isn’t refundable, which I suspect may be the case, then canceling the wedding may not be the best option, but your fiancé may need to give up the idea of an Orthodox Rabbi.
You are on the right track with the debt counseling, I think, but be careful, some of those places are not helpful.
I’m sorry things are so overwhelming for you Manny. I do hope your luck takes a turn for the better very soon.
If you have the time, you can do the same negotiations with your creditors that these guys do, w/o needing to pay the negotiator. Also (& they never tell you this), when you do a negotiated settlement with a credit card, there is a hit to your credit score; maybe not as much as a full bankruptcy, but it is a decent hit. As long as you’re aware of the potential higher interest rate to future loans because of the lower credit score, go ahead & do it.
It’s sounding like a wedding at that venue is not working for you. You’re probably not going to get back the money you’ve already paid, whether you have the wedding there or not, but you can cancel and at least not throw any more money into that particular money pit. But do talk to the venue- the worst they can say is no, they won’t give you any of your money back, and that leaves you no worse off than you are now. And they might not say no.
After you get out of your involvement with the venue, look at scaling down the guest list.
First things first: I feel for you. Anyone would be overwhelmed in your shoes! You can have a whole (((((((((())))))))))) of internet hugs from me!
Secondly, though, talk to your beloved. If she’s already worried about the debt you are carrying, then she would surely understand that you can’t have the grand wedding you’re envisioning right this minute. The venue may allow you to postpone the event, keeping the deposits in place (maybe with a penalty,) or they may not, but really - between your parents’ ills and your own financial woes, a big pricey wedding seems badly-timed, at minimum.
I’ll let others weigh in on the advisability of bankruptcy - I’m no expert - but I can say that my husband went through one shortly before we married. That wasn’t great, but it wasn’t a deal-breaker for me, and it was better than the alternative. (The ex-wife developed a gambling problem, lots of money was borrowed, and it was overwhelming - contributed directly to the divorce. Sadly, it’s still a problem, and I hope she manages to find the help she needs.)
You need to re-calibrate your priorities. Funding a wedding that will put you much further into debt is literally insane. I’m not too familiar with Orthodox Jewish weddings but from what I’ve seen outside looking in they seem to generally be BFDs and LOTs of money is spent. If you are 60K in debt and can barely manage that this will be putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger.
If the Orthodox wedding and it’s attendant costs and complications is the only wedding your fiancé is going to accept you are just going to have to put it off. A low cost, very nice wedding can be had for a few thousand including food for a modest crowd but not with all the requirements met that your fiancé wants.
Look at the options. You get married drop another $20,000-$30,000+ on the wedding. At that point you have effectively bankrupted yourself. How that’s going to play at the start of new marriage?
If your fiancé is “aware” of your debt issues and is still insisting on this full bore orthodox wedding I think you may need to re-evaluate her priorities relative to yours. You do not have anywhere close to enough money to do this nor will you in the foreseeable future unless you have a good personal income you have not heretofore revealed and this 60K can be handled in a relatively short time with smarter spending.
Also, be VERY careful of those debt settlement companies - a lot (most? all?) of them are scammers.
At this point, I wouldn’t worry about the hit to your credit rating - whatever way you go it’ll take a hit. You definitely want to have all that out of the way before the wedding or your fiancee may be at risk as well. Filing for bankruptcy (chapter 13?) may be the fastest, safest thing to do at this point.
If you are past the point where you can pay one cc with a new (or at least other) cc, a huge wedding is beyond reason. Will her parents pay for the wedding AND pay off the debts of the new SIL? If not, then don’t do it.
You obviously cannot pay the current debts, so why on earth add another $20K or so?
Such an expenditure would likely screw up any shot you have of getting a Bankruptcy Court to discharge your current debts - it would look a WHOLE LOT like you are piling on every debt you can just to be able to dump them. That trick is right up there with gifts to family members the week before filing for Chap. 7.
I’m back, with more time to post I did read all the replies.
First I don’t have any assets, my car loan is about 2000 more than the kbb value of it. I have no property and according to a lawyer I spoke to my wife will not be liable for any of the debt I bring to the marriage.
The wedding venue’s minimum is 100 people. My mother is getting 50 people to invite and we are getting 50 people. If my mother wants more than the 50 she is allotted she will pay for the difference. I’m responsible for the DJ ($900.00) and I have that put aside. My fiancee will pay for the photographer and videographer. A video is important because her family lives in Israel and not everyone can come. Because of medical issues her mother might not be able to fly here for the wedding.
Without the DJ/Photographer and Videgrapher the wedding is 8000 which is reasonable to us. The issue is having an Orthodox Rabbi perform the wedding. I have spoken to another one and if I can prove to his satisfaction that I am Jewish he will do the wedding without requiring all the guests to be served kosher food. That will keep the cost within our means. if my fiancee had not lost one of her jobs the expense would be less stressful.
Another reason for not waiting is the health of our parents. If we wait they may not be around to see the wedding.
Tell people you’re throwing an $8,000 party while in these circumstances and they’ll look at you like you’re mad.
Say you’re getting married, and suddenly it’s ok?
Well, honestly, it’s not. Getting married costs a small fraction of that $8,000 and that part is more or less affordable. Everything else is a $7,500-ish party that you’re throwing while sinking in debt and crisis, and that’s crazy.
I agree with the other posters. You are in a debt emergency. If you and your fiancee agree that you NEED to get married right now, for whatever reasons, get to the registry office and take a handful of people out to dinner.
I’m hoping you’ve scaled down your expenses. Can you explain (if not to me/us/SDMBers, to yourself) how you ended up in the hole that deeply? Dating broke women, as per your OP, doesn’t make sense to me - were you taken advantage of somehow?
It also sounds like some members of your family have bought into the wedding fairytale. Why does your mother get to invite 50 people to your wedding? If she wants a big fancy party, she should have one, and pay for it.
Araminty, I accumulated the debt because I made the choice to live today and not care about tomorrow. Through seeing a therapist I came to the understanding that I didn’t feel a woman who like me and want to be with me for who I was but rather for what I can give. So I chose to date woman who needed me and while they said they loved me I think they loved that they were taken care of.
Everything I did on a date, any place I went for 8 years (multiple relationships) I paid for almost everything. I would drive and pay for gas because either they couldn’t drive or their car wasn’t working. Sporting events, trips, concerts, movies it was all on me and I just put it on a credit card not worrying about what will happen.
I was at the point where I could pay the minimum amounts and still have money left over but not much money and that’s the minimum so I wasn’t decreasing my debt. The only debt of mine that has gone down is my car.
After therapy I worked through why I was drawn to women who needed me to take care of them. I know know who is the right person for me and my fiancee is. Her financial situation and view is 180 degrees from mine. She is being with me not for what I can give but for who I am and how we make each other feel. Before the proposal we did have a “couples counseling” session with my therapist because we do have differences that could present problems in a relationship but even my counselor said that we should be able to work through any problems.
My fiancee and I combined have about 48 people that we want to invite and because my mother gave me the stone from her engagement ring, and has more people that she wants to invite than we do we are giving her 50 people.
