I'm sick of Pop

Cafe Society
1

OK, up front: I’m about to turn 34. Yeah, some of my hair is starting to fall out, and there are some flecks of grey appearing, but I’m not that old. I like all different kinds of music, and I’ve tried to resist turning into a curmudgeonly agist music grump…“Christ! The shit these kids listen to today! You call that music?”

But that’s exacly what is happening.

Maybe it’s just one of those things that happens with age, like liver spots, but unlike other proven and well-characterized consequences of gerontological decline, I can find no well-supported evidence that growing intolerance to youthful music is some inevitable consequence of decrepitude. I know my dad thought the Dead Kennedys were Satan’s spawn, that the Police were fronted by a man named “Stink”, that the Replacements were just drunken idiots, but…well, he was just wrong.

When I conclude that Christine Aguillera is a talentless producer-driven strip-tease dancer who happens to be able to sing on pitch (the majority of the time), I have a hard time believing I could be wrong the way my dad was about Bad Brains. Trying to enjoy today’s pop divas makes me feel like a sex pervert, and besides, they all sound the same, dammit.

Y’see, the thing is, even though my dad hated my music, I really kinda liked his. Looking backwards from 80s punk and new wave, I had no problem with Neil Diamond. Hey, John Denver was kinda corny, but he could write a damn good tune. The Eagles? I frickin’ LOVE the Eagles. I taught myself to play on an acustic guitar, picking up beatles tunes by ear. Sure, I loved Joe Strummer, but damned if I didn’t think Jimmy Hendrix was the NUTS and then some. If I had a piano around growing up I would have learned some Carol King tunes too. I loved these things unabashedly. My dad used to yell at me to stop scratching up his records, and he couldn’t understand my interest to begin with.

And I like old country. I’m nuts about old Charlie Daniels, Waylon Jennings, stuff like that. And good old R&B, funk, disco even. I mean, “I’ll Be Around” by the Spinners almost makes me cry to this day. I’ll shake my white ass to Kool and the Gang any time.

But looking forward…[shudder]. I mean, are the Strokes and the White Stripes supposed to save us from musical armageddon? I just don’t see it. Is pap like Avril Lavigne really what American youth culture is now all about? Sure, my generation had its Tiffanies and Go-gos (who actually weren’t total crap, in retrospect), but, if my memory serves me, they had to jostle for the limelight with some decidedly more stirring musical talent on the airwaves. What legacy could today’s teenie-boppers possibly leave behind? I mean, will anybody give two craps about Brittney once her boobs start to sag more than a centimeter? Could she ever hold her own into her 40s like a Chrissie Hynde, or even her 50s, like a Lucinda Williams? I think fucking not.

Is pop music really in trouble now? I mean really headed for the toilet…not like a “Turn that rock&roll racket off you little deviants, and get offa my lawn!” kinda problem, but a “talent is no longer rewarded, music is now an assembly line product to be spewed at us by an endless stream of air-headed, silicone-enhanced 19-year-olds, and pop is now dead” kinda problem.

I’m serious. I’m starting to hate pop. Is it just me? Am I just slipping into old fartitude and don’t know any better, or is the only redeemable future really gang-banging hip-hoppers and their pervasive sociopathy? Shit, my punk heros were angry and violent, but they had a serious ironic streak ('cept maybe Johnny Rotten once he decided he was a musician). These gangsta rappers actually kill one another. It’s not about musical catharsis anymore. That’s a scary kinda future if you ask me. But the only one that aspires to any kind of creativity. Man, is rock really dead and gone, and is positive pop nothing but plactic?

2

And the debate is …?

The rules for this forum won’t allow a response to this one.

:smiley:

3

Don’t look at me, I’m 36 and most of the music I listen to is electronica/techno. And believe me, if you think Britney Spears’ stuff is “just noise,” you haven’t heard “noise” yet. :wink:

4

I genuinely like some techno and can’t deny it isn’t creative. I had a pretty long Unerworld phase, and used to fall asleep to “Rabbit in Your Headlights” (Unkle) very happily. I simply love some borrowers like Bjork (I don’t care what anybody says) and Radiohead restores my faith from time to time. A little. But the impact factor is slight at best. I could be wrong, but if the future of electronica is Matmos soothing us with the tuneful sounds of liposuction, I don’t think main-stream radio will ever really embrace the genre. True progress in that realm seems to be the antithesis of melody. There’s nothing wrong with that, but (I say without shame) I like to bop along sometimes to a good tune, or just rock out or whatever. Damn, I stuck a bunch of old junk on the iPod the other day, and was just screaming along with “Alex Chilton” (Remplacements) in my car. Fun! Happy!

Jesus, I listen to Alicia Keys’ tinny whining about birds or whatever-the-hell and I want to put my foot through the radio. It’s not that its a bad tune, per se, it is just so fucking un-in-spiring McPopburger-with-special-mayo fluff plasticine . rot. It sucks the life out of you and transforms it into whatever fills the tiny voids in Cheez curls.

[Depression begins to set in again]

5

So maybe Frank Zappa was right when he wrote:

Well the years was rollin’ by, yeah
Heavy Metal ‘n’ Glitter Rock
Had caught the public eye, yeah
Snotty boys with lipstick on
Was really flyin’ high, yeah
‘N’ then they got that Disco thing
‘N’ New Wave came along
‘N’ all of a sudden I thought the time
Had come for that old song
We used to play in “Joe’s Garage”
And if I am not wrong
You will soon be dancin’ to…

"The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only.
If you gotta load or unload, go to the WHITE ZONE. "

6

I’m a few years older than you and I came to a similar conclusion about the state of popular music sometime around 2000. But then I remembered that the quality of music occasionally goes through fallow periods (e.g., the mid 70’s and most of the 80’s) and that this was just one of them. However, there are several other factors that have made the late 90’s and early 00’s the era of suckitude it is. The first is that the consolidation and merging of record companies into huge mega-labels have put a greater emphasis on the bottom-line mentality. As a result, the recording industry has less patience for those artists who–while unique–don’t regularly sell millions of CD’s from the get-go. Also, the major players in the industry are less likely to take risks with artists or sounds that are considered “too different” to appeal to the mainstream.

Second, because of the immense size and influence, [cue theme from The Empire Strikes Back] Clear Channel pretty much calls the tune on how music is presented on the radio these days. Thus, formats are further Balkanized, playlists shrunk, and songs are repeated more often. Also, radio stations–like the big record companies–are less likely to take a chance with anything new or different because it might scare away listeners and (more importantly) advertisers.

As the state of music itself, there is still good stuff out there. It just means that maybe you’ll have to listen to internet radio stations, comb through indie record stores, or “go outlaw” and download MP3s to find it. Apparently that’s what many are doing now since the recording industry has been in the dumps for the last several years.

I disagree with you on that point. However, as I said, if you don’t like what’s playing on the radio, just dig a little and maybe you’ll find something you like.

(BTW, how long before this thread is moved to Cafe Society?)

7

I hate my dad, too…oh, wait.

No, actually, I really do.

mm

8

OK dude, take a deep breath. hold it…exhale. GOOD! Now repeat after me: there is good music out there, you just have to find it.

For the record, I am 29. From time to time, I also depair for the state of today’s music. Especially in those “off years.” Remember 1987-88? That was without a doubt the WORST MUSICAL ERA in the history of mankind. “Pop goes the world” and “Que Sera Que Sera” by Lisa Lisa and the Cult Jam and Debby Gibson and oh god make it stop make it stop!!! Think back. It really was horrible. (One exception: “Walk This Way” Aerosmith/Run DMC) So whenever you feel overwhelmed, just tell yourself that this is an off year. Don’t keep track of how often you say this.

But really, there is good music out there! Seek and you shall find. Hint: It will not necessarily be found on the Warner Bros label.

Besides, Lucinda Williams IS current, so you have already named at least one artist with a recent release that is good. So there. And yes, you sound like a fuddy duddy.

9

Moderator’s Note: Bopping thread on over to Cafe Society.

10

I, too, am sick of Pop.
I prefer the term “carbonated drink”.

11

Well, I’m over 50 and I was able to enjoy popular music (generally) up until the past few years.

The problem with popular music today is that it’s lost all creativity. It’s just bland same old same old with all singers sounding the same.

What rock music needs is something like the New Wave and punk to shake it up. Because, unfortunately, it’s become moribund.

12

In 1965 Dylan went electric and the folkies went nuts because he was buying into that teen-age noise music.

In 1970 soft-sounding groups came along and 60s rockers were suicidal over the death of real music.

Disco was hated by absolutely everyone, including those who loved it.

Only a handful of idiot teenagers could stand the horror that was punk.

Rap, now hip hop, represented the decline of all western civilization.

Teenyboppers from the 1910 Fruit Gum Company through Bobby Sherman through Debbie Gibson through Hillary Duff have always been the lowest rung of hell for anyone about the age of 8.

Are things worse today than ever before? Of course they are. But I’m even older than RealityChuck. (Well, just a little. Not much, really.)

And Loopydude, just think, just try to imagine, just try to put into your head, the kind of music your kids will love. :smiley:

13

Loopydude, may I please direct you to a couple of threads:

about Power Pop

and

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=234177&highlight=music+snob

about what Music Snobs would declare as worthy.

The point? What is popular and what is good only overlap rarely. And what is good rarely influences what is popular. Right now, the Neptunes are doing some great stuff production-wise - a JTimberlake single here, Kelis’ Milkshake - even if the lyrics are insipid, the production rocks - there. There are a few others, like Missy Elliott, but not a lot. Go figure.

At the same time, bubbling below the surface, with only occasional eruptions, are bands like Fountains of Wayne, The New Pornographers, British Sea Power, Sun Kil Moon and a whole bunch of others. Are they Pop, as in popular? Nah, not really. But they are accessible, innovative and really good. But other than the Beatles, Stones, Hendrix and a few others, for the most part the charts of the '60’s were littered with crap. And the '70’s? Please - can you say Afternoon Delight, Seasons in the Sun, and I Want To Hold You Until the Fear in me Subsides (aka Sometimes When We Touch, by - who? - Dan Hill or somebody)? Jeez, what unmitigated crap. Good stuff, even popular stuff like Rumours, was the notable exception that stands out and has endured to this day.

Pop, in terms of popular, music is 95% crap. Find the good stuff. It’s pretty much where you left it back in the day. And it is still there. I suspect that when you were younger it was easier and more natural to find it - now you are older and have a lot less time to go searching, but the stuff that is handed to you is the same crap that gets handed to anyone who just checks the Top 40. I know - I am about your age and have to invest time to find the good stuff…no offense intended, and I am very sorry if it comes across that way.

14

I came to your conclusions, too. In 1986. It started happening to me in 1980, and I didn’t want to believe that I was losing interest in what was current. I also was hoping music was going through a fallow period. So I pretended to be able to identify with what was on the radio for a few more years. The last albums I bought were in 1985. Since '86, I have not heard one song that would make me leave the house to go find it and bring it home. Strange, though, how I was able to amass more than 10,000 records before this change happened.

But you know, I am not going to start ranting on how today’s music sucks, because for all I know or care, it doesn’t actually suck! Somebody must like it, right? And who would that be? Teenagers. The ones with large amounts of their parents’ money to spend on music consumption. I do recognize that it is not being marketed to me. I’m not part of the demographic for today’s musical entertainment, so nobody cares if I don’t like any of what they’re serving up. There is no market for 40-somethings. So don’t feel too bad if you’re becoming disaffected by the state of entertainment. You’re aging out of the demographic.

I wanted so badly to be a recording artist for so many years of my life. By the time I had acquired the skills to be able to pull it off, there was no market for the kind of music I played anymore. And there still isn’t. My guess is that there will never be. It’s a good thing that I don’t listen to the radio anymore (unless I absolutely have to). That was how I was able to get goosebumps from hearing a bit of “Stairway To Heaven” last week - I hadn’t heard it in about 15 years. I like being able to rediscover how great some music is. If I was constantly bombarded by the same 244 songs, I’d hate all of them.

Not having a radio is also the reason why I’m able to say I’ve never heard anything by Madonna, or Debbie Gibson, or Boyz II Men or The Backstreet Boys or Britney Spears, or any rap artist. I don’t wear it on my sleeve or anything, I have just lost interest.

According to the math, if I started listening to one album a day from my collection, it’d take me 114 years to hear everything. So I’d better get started! I figure another entire genre of music will come and go before I get halfway through.

15

Man, I’m 21, and I can’t stand the crap these kids all music nowadays. I’ve despaired that I’ll never, ever find a band I enjoy who released albums after '85, but then I discovered The Magnetic Fields and *Wilco, and between the two of them, they have saved my sanity.

16

I am 42 and I think pop music (or at least what I consider pop) is some of the best of my life.

Smashmouth has done some of the best pop songs of the last 20 years, and my current favorite (I need to start a thread about them) OutKast is just incredible. “Hey ya” is one of my all time favorite pop songs.

I agree about Britney Spears, though. I was subjected to it last weekend while sharing a roof with a sixteen year old girl (and her mother, pervert!). It sucked.

17

I agree with you 100% (except for the Bad Brains bit - a little before my time, obviously), and I’m 16. You just have to do what many other people suggested in this thread - find the good stuff. It actually is a little harder right now than it should be, since our radios are being saturated with all the crap. If you can pick up a university station on your radio (or something similarly independant), you should be able to find some music you like without too much trouble.

Good luck!

18

Good thread. My mother was about 50 when I turned her on to some of the music I was listening to, like the pet shop boys and erasure. I think those two groups make lots of quality pop music. She was dazzled that the pet shop boys were making such good music and were virtually unknown in America. Only in Europe are they popular. So I don’t think age is a huge factor. If someone loved music in their youth, chances are they will love it later on, provided there is good stuff to listen.

My father has almost never liked any music at all, except for some classical music here and there. My mother was embarrased that he wasn’t into rock’n’roll during its heydey.

I’m 23, and I think my tastes are always growing larger. But I am exploring older stuff, not new pop music. I recently bought a Leonard Cohen album and I love listening to my mom’s old records, like Iron Butterfly and the Grassroots.

I’d have to agree that almost everything I hear that is new is complete bullshit. I am skeptical of any music that you can’t dance to, and almost everything is completely un-funky. Even the folk songs I like by Leonard Cohen have an easy swing to them.

Also, I hate the way the modern music establishment or structure forces you to be a nerd…spending too much time seeking out good music, thereby obsessing over it all the more.

19

The OP’s thesis is flawed right from the outset. With the exception of The Police who were insanely popular back in the day, The Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains, and The Replacements were never pop and never received airplay (although radio would have been a far better place if they had).

Then, as now, you have to look for the good stuff. I’m 36 and, although I have less time to devote to music than I did as a teen, it’s still important enough to me that I make an effort. Radio and television just haven’t been factors in my musical choices since the mid-1980s. On the other hand, friends, clubs, live shows, college radio and internet message boards have all pointed me to some excellent music over the years.

Although this is a very good point, I’m also a jazz fan and as such, my nerdish tendencies are entirely too entrenched for me to save myself :wink: .

FWIW, here are some recent favourites, only a small minority of which receive any airplay:[ul]Folk / Pop / Rock:
[li]Wilco, The Eels, The Shins, Magnetic Fields, Minus 5, Morphine, The Constantines, Broken Social Scene, The Weakerthans, The New Pornographers, Fountains of Wayne, The White Stripes (yes, they deserve the hype), Sloan, Beck, Interpol, Queens of the Stone Age, Dandy Warhols, Sam Roberts, Beth Orton, Neko Case, Aimee Mann.[/li]
Electronica / Psychadelic / Art Rock:
[li]Radiohead, Godspeed You Black Emporer!, Tortoise, The Flaming Lips, Amon Tobin, Sigur Ros, Autchre, Boards of Canada, Manitoba.[/li]
Trip Hop / Hip Hop / Rap:
[*]The Roots, Outkast, Talib Kweli, Black-Eyed Peas, Beastie Boys, Massive Attack, Tricky, Portishead, A Trip Called Quest, Thievery Corporation.[/ul]

20

You’re missing a couple of things here. You seem to be an intelligent kind of guy. I’ll give you a chance to work them out for yourself.

Here’s a hint: how many top forty singles did the Dead Kennedy’s have? How many top 40 hits did the Replcaments have? How many top 40 hits did Bad Brains have? Now, how are these groups different from Xtina?

Also – While the Police weren’t fronted by a fellow named Stink, it is certainly an apt description of their musical output. Was Police synonomous with insipid back in the early eighties?

I don’t mean to overly criticise, since all taste is personal, but why don’t you listen to some Creed or some Good Charlotte? You were perfectly happy to listen to bland commercial rock in the ‘70s, so what’s wrong with today’s output?

Then you should appreciate contemporary artists like Whiskeytown, Wilco, Son Volt or Uncle Tupelo.

Then, there’s no reason why you shouldn’t enjoy nu-soul like Erykah Badu or Cody ChestnuTT; hip hop groups like Outkast or the Roots or house acts like Daft Punk.

No. Of course they’re not doing anything new. But nor were Iggy Pop or The Ramones. They’re just out there writing great songs with heaps of energy. Just like Iggy Pop and The Ramones.

No more than pap like Duran Duran or Haircut 100 were what ‘80s American youth culture was about. And, to be fair, at least Avril’s had one pop song worthy of being called a guilty pleasure (Complicated). I’m not the only one – Travis Morrison from Dismemberment Plan and Ben Gibbard from Death Cab both agree.

Of course people aren’t going to care about Britney forever, especially if she keep doing the sort of lacklustre singles she’s released recently. But do people give a shit what Tiffany is doing these days? Hell, no! And, well, Britney has hung around for four albums, so far. Did Tiffany get anywhere near that?

And while Britney may not do a Madonna, there’s every chance an artist like Beyonce will. Beyonce has the talent, the star appeal and the smarts for a long term career – and have a look at a Destiny’s Child album and note all the production credits she receives – she’s not just some record company creation.

And meanwhile, what has Chrissie Hynde done recently? I mean, apart from nostalgia tours? She’s about as washed up as Britney will be in five to ten years time. I mean, if you want a Chrissie Hynde comparison, at least look to someone like Shirley Manson from Garbage (who did have their time in the sun, and probably will again, if they ever release another album).

To the contrary, pop is going fantastically. Talented producers such as the Neptunes, Timbaland, Kanye West, Just Blaze and R Kelly keep pushing the envelope. For the first time since probably the late ‘60s, mainstream, songwriter/producer-driven pop is actually listenable. If you turn on MTV these days, for the first time in ages, you’ll probably find something to bop your head to. What with Kelis, Missy Elliot, Justin Timberlake, Beyonce, mainstream pop is looking respectable for once. Not to mention artists like Jay-Z, Outkast, Junior Senior or Fountains of Wayne making their contributions to the charts.

Yes. That’s pretty much it.

Yeah, at least Sid Vicious never did anything to another musician. Oh, and how about that guy Phil Spector? What was he arrested for? At least with Pac and Biggie, the best you can say with any certainty is that they didn’t care for each others and had associates willing to act on that animosity.

Who cares what mainstream radio does? Why do I need some program director to tell me what to listen to? Oh, and by the way – Unkle, Bjork and Radiohead aren’t techno. Underworld doesn’t really qualify either – they’re more trance, but at least they’re closer.

I’m sorry, Loopydude, I don’t mean to seem so harsh, but you’ve got a choice. You can either sit there and bitch, or you can get back on the horse and listen to some decent music. There’s a lot out there. There are some great albums just from this decade that are as good as anything released in the ’60, ‘70s or ‘80s.

Here are a few. If you want to do something more constructive than complain, I recommend you listen to them:

Outkast – Stankonia
Radiohead – Kid A (you may already have this)
Interpol – Turn On The Bright Lights
Wilco – Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
The Strokes – Is This It?/ Room On Fire
The White Stripes – Red Blood Cells
Death Cab For Cutie – We Have The Fact and We’re Answering Yes
Dizzee Rascal – Boy In Da Corner
The Roots – Phrenology
The Books – Thought For Food
Ryan Adams – Heartbreaker
The Streets – Original Pirate Material
The Flaming Lips – Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots
Basement Jaxx – Rooty/ Kish Kash
And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Dead – Source Tags And Codes
The Sleepy Jackson – Lovers
The Postal Service – Give Up
The Liars – They Threw Us All in a Trench and Stuck a Monument on Top
The Shins – Chutes Too Narrow

And these are just a few. There’s plenty more out there, if you look.