I'm sick of Pop

Cafe Society
61

Little harsh there, Exapno - perhaps gex is not as immersed in the critical review of the fields mentioned as you are, but no need to lash out so hard. The fact that most critics lament that yesterday was better in a chosen field is the nature of the beast.

Besides, his point - and the point of the other posters saying that music is still vital and accessible - still holds. “Pop” music may be controlled by corporations and be less quality, but there is great music out there - one just has to find which channels work for them to get to it. And those channels are not that hard to find.

signed,

40-year-old music fan whos is still up on new music

62

I was kidding just a little bit. I was indulging myself in a little bit of grumpy-old-man-ism. I have no doubt that I could find something out there that i like if I tried, but I don’t have the energy or the knwoledge to figure out what i is any more.

I’m reminded of something that Grandpa Simpson once said:

“I used to be with it, but now what I’m with isn’t it. And what is it seemes strange and scary to me now. It’ll happen to you!”

It happened to me.

63

Satellite radio is saving music, at least for me - it has nearly all the variety you’d find on internet radio, but you can listen in your car. I’ve heard Death Cab for Cutie, The Flaming Lips, Interpol, Portishead, The Postal Service, Radiohead, The Roots, The Shins, The Streets, Unkle, and Wilco on SIRIUS (all on the same two streams).

One of the new streams they added a couple weeks ago combines smooth rock and electronica, and my music-geek friend was pleasantly surprised to hear them playing Air and Zero 7 next to Dido and Boy George.

64

If you wanna find some great new music, go to the Coachella Festival. Official lineup will be up later this week, but the who’s been confirmed (via other sources) so far:
Radiohead
The Pixies
Kraftwerk
Electric Six
LCD Soundsystem
Sahara Hotnights
The International Noise Conspiracy
And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead
Atmosphere w/ Eyedea and Abilities
Kinky
The Cure
Wilco
Air
Belle and Sebastian
Basement Jaxx
The Thrills
Moving Units
Mogwai
Dizzee Rascal
Prefuse 73
Sidestepper
T. Raumschmiere
Seb Fontaine
Sage Francis
The Flaming Lips
!!!
Yeah Yeah Yeahs
Bright Eyes
Death Cab for Cutie
The Sleepy Jackson
My Morning Jacket
The Crystal Method
Paul Van Dyk
Mark Farina
The Stills
Broken Social Scene
The Killers
Stellastarr
The Black Keys

That’s probably only about half the lineup. If you can’t find something to like at Coachella, you’re hopeless. It’s the best weekend of the year.

65

Huh? Have you not been exposed to KEXP?

(bolding mine)

66

Wordman is right - I’m nowhere near as knowledgeable about criticism in these fields as you appear to be. All I know is that when I go to a gallery I’m enjoying myself whether I’m looking at something that’s 10, 100 or 500 years old. I couldn’t imagine that someone could try to argue, for instance, that no-one is writing decent novels anymore. Obviously, however, they do.

But, all the better. Your post just shows that there are critics silly enough to unnecessarily glorify the past, no matter what medium they may be criticising. It’s beyond ridiculous to suggest that the modern world is infected with such philistinism that humanity has forgotten how to produce any works of artistic worth. It seems that discussion of pop music just takes this notion to the extreme, by not only declaring contemporary pop worthless, but declaring that pop released its zenith at a time coinciding with the speakers teenage years. You surely can see the impossibility of taking this view seriously.

But, as Homer Simpson said, Why do you need new bands? Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It’s a scientific fact. :rolleyes:

67

There have been plenty of interesting bands emerging in the nineties: Radiohead, Oasis, Cranberries, Suede, Placebo, Belle and Sebastian, Coldplay, Travis, Evanescence and so on.

DP (46)

68

“For instance, in the late '70s, where mainstream rock fans were putting ‘Disco Sucks’ bumper stickers on their cars, punk bands like The Clash and Blondie were embracing elements of it. It wasn’t that they were that much younger, but they seem to have been more open-minded about things.”

Nitpicks: First, the Clash never embraced disco. On Sandista! and “The Magnificent Seven” they tried their hand at rap, but that’s a totally different thing (and bloody awful they were at it too.)

Second, embracing disco post-Saturday Night Fever was not exactly an innovative move. Everyone, and I mean everyone, was doing it. Polka bands were doing it. 50s crooners Steve Lawrence and Edie Gorme were doing it. It wasn’t being open minded, it was cynically commercial bandwagon hopping, which is why Blondie was razzed by their New Wave comrades for releasing “Heart of Glass.” Lo and behold, it did vault the previously obscure (in America) Blondie to the top of the charts. (I will admit it turned out to be one of the better disco/rock singles.)

Getting back to the OP: comparing cult indie heroes the Replacements to extruded mass-market product Christina Aguilerra is hysterically inappropriate, and if you don’t see why, then yes, you are an old fart. :wink:

69

So many posts, all good.

To even those who couldn’t have agreed with me less and (itho) confirmed my worst fears about farty obsolescence, you made some great points, and, more importantly, reminded me of, or clued me into, some great music suggestions.

I guess part of the key is to stay off the radio.

However, I still stand by my basic premise/concern, no matter how irrelevant-seeming to the pop world some of my music heroes were (and I don’t think the Replacements were as irrelevant to pop as some claim, at least not in the circles I ran, where many thought they “sold out” from Tim on, or even before; yet I thought they were hitting their stride), the plasticene nature of current music pop stars and starlets seems to contrast greatly with what I remember of pop from almost any other era I can think of.

I think some folks hit the nail right on the head re: marketing and major label impatience. I listened to an NPR re-run a while ago, Terri Gross talking to an old producer, partly on the subject of the changing radio landscape, the potential role of the internet, etc. He threw out Neil Young as an example, basically to say Neil Young could NEVER have become a star on today’s radio. It took him years to really develop a following, but the label nurtured him because the values of corporate music back then were simply different than now. In this guy’s oppinion (I wish I could remember his name), label and radio values are in the money, period. Get as much, as quickly, as possible. Artists are product, assembled by committee. He said he’d seen nothing like the current era in the history of American radio, and I think the gist was if the internet didn’t help the situation, the future looks dire.

Yeah, maybe a farticious old has-been lamenting his current irrelevance. Or a guy who is absolutely correct.

70

Back in the early 80’s we used to sit around and debate, “Who’s the best guitarist? Who’s the best drummer?” Although it’s not supposed to be a contest, the emphasis on and appreciation of musicianship was clear. These days the music is either an intense ball of noise, an endless throbbing beat, or a bland, irellevant vehicle for whichever pop personality is being promoted. Jack White is the only current guitarist I can even name.

71

“the plasticene nature of current music pop stars and starlets seems to contrast greatly with what I remember of pop from almost any other era I can think of.”

Take some time, go back, and read the Billboard charts from years past. There have always been the Fabians, the Pat Boones, the 1910 Fruitgum Companies, the Osmonds, the Shaun Cassidys, the Menudos, the Tiffanys. And they live on in the Brittanys and the Justins of today. (If it makes you feel any better the current extruded teen product cycle is about to end, due less to problems in the music industry than to the current boomlet of tweenage girls growing up. Look for mopey males with guitars to make a comeback!)

The challenge is, and has always been, searching beyond the godawful crap that has always dominated the charts. But it doesn’t just fall into your lap; you have to look, especially now that you’re (like me) an old fart. :slight_smile:

72

This may be a hijack, but this thread has just made me realize why I like this board so much, I mean, every opinion I have on the subject has pretty much been stated beautifully. Then again, I’m a Weezer fan.

73

While I don’t think the Replacements are irrelevant to pop (in that they probably had a greater impact after their career than during it), it seems they certainly didn’t have a lot to do with the pop world when they were making records.

According to this biography, Tim was not a big seller:

I think in terms of their later work, the Replacements had one or two minor hits, but never really crossed over to the mainstream the way R.E.M. did. This isn’t a slight on them - most of the time the best bands are to be found underground, and that was as true then as it is now.

Of course, it’s not a surprise that many hardcore fans thought they’d sold out from Tim on - they were signed to a major label. It’s like a rule of liking underground bands that you’re meant to say they sold out when they went to a major. You’ll find fans saying exactly the same thing about bands today.

74

well I bigtime missed out on this thread.

to gex gexs post above, with people thinking the Replacements sold out, remember back to 91/92 when Nirvana broke big? At the same time everybody said Pearl Jam were sellouts for coming straight out on a major label, every big ‘underground’ and 2 bit band were signing or being signed to majors. see: Dinosaur jr, Sonic Youth, Janes Addiction, Screaming Trees, Soundgarden etc to people like Seaweed, Tad and many more I cant think of right now.The only one I can think of that stayed indie were the Pixies.
Doesnt make their music any less credible to me.

To the OP, there are good pop tunes still being written, (commercial, rather than catchy tunes by real bands) IMO, but they are few and far between. I’d know more if I actually listened to radio anymore, but I cant deal with the same tunes being played twice an hour.
many people have mentioned the good stuff in above posts, most of which i’ll admit to not having heard, but will try to check out. the only new albums (rather than back catalogue) i bought last year would have been:
OutKast
A Perfect Circle
Nick Caves Nocturama
Radiohead

watching MTV on occasion really does sadden me. good production (a la Timberland/Neptunes) still doesnt make up for the fact these are glorified dancers who can hold a tune, or people who really,really want to be Michael Jackson.

and whoever said the thing about everybody whos 20 sayd that about the Beatles, dead wrong my friend. I hate them with a passion, and have done since I was about 14.

I’m 26. cheers!

75

I admit it- I am NOT a “critic”- I know what I like, and some of it is “pop”. I rarely listen to the Top40 stations or watch MTV, so I get most of my exposure to new music via osmosis- My children (16-22) or the store/mall/ect… that said-

I love-(I will buy the CD unheard, and probably love)
Matchbox 20
David Bowie
Elvis Costello
Willie Nelson
Queen
Aerosmith
Blues Travelers
I do like some ‘diva’ music- xtina, shakira, and some of the nu-rock(if that’s what it’s called), transplants, staind, etc…and the stuff that’s been around for a while- Tool, Metallica, Perfect Circle, Deftones, etc.

That said, my opinion and 65 cents will get you a diet coke. :smiley:

76

  1. I’m 49. I try to blame my dislike for most newer music on my age and the fact that I cannot give it the time and effort I gave it thirty years ago.

If you had been listening to that show for as long as I have you’d recall the GREAT days when there was a station policy not to play anything from the same ALBUM more than once every three days. Now once a song gets on their playlist it never, ever, leaves it. Nor is it augmented by something else from the same album. Wouldn’t you think that, in the four years since Three Doors Down released “The Better Life,” a GOOD station might try playing something by them besides “Kryptonite?” Or just misplace it because everybody is sick of hearing it? Or if they get an early release from an upcoming album could they play something else once the album is released? No, WXRT will keep playing that same damned song every six hours for the next two years and once every few days for the rest of time.

Pop Art is dead. Op art is dead. Surrealism is dead. Impressionism is dead. The Hudson River School is dead. Need I go on? As for architecture, talk to Prince Charles about all of the quality buildings being made these days.

77

Me either. I like both the Replacements early work and their later work. I was just saying that many hardcore fans of any band did, and still do consider signing to a major as being the epitome of selling out.

It doesn’t worry me. I’m not pretending that these glorified dancers are fantastic talents, but I don’t demand much of commercial pop. If the songs there, that’s good enough for me. I’ll demand standards from proper bands, but looking for anything other than a catchy tune and good production from commercial pop-artists is a pretty defeating exercise. It always has been.

I thought I was the only one!

I’ll take your word for it, though it still seems to me to be a step above declaring war on disco (not that disco was that good, but there were things around at the time more worthy of contempt).

As for the Clash, I’ll readily concede that they had little to do with disco, though This Is Radio Clash sounds a bit disco-y to me, and the end of Lost In The Supermarket introduces a bit of a disco-esque bassline (though it could just as easily be described as funk, and that is probably a better interpretation of its source.) Still, as you mentioned, The Clash tried their hand at hip hop, and though the end result was disastrous, it is evidence of an interest. Many people of the same age are still unable to get past “rap with a capital c, haw haw haw,” so Mr Strummer and co certainly showed themselves to be ahead of their peers in terms of interest. And my New Order example still stands.

I’m not sure if I’m missing something with Prince Charles, since I don’t trust him to be a successful figurehead, let alone a critic of architecture, but I’ll say to you what i said to the other poster who showed me that I was wrong in my presumption.

78

I have one thing to add: “Italian mobster shoots a Lobster”

This is why the Clash should never have rapped. Even if they were ahead of their time. I’d have said they were more Dub and Reggae influenced than Disco or Rap though.

And also gex , I am also happy there are people other than myself that think the Beatles are overrated pop crap, overplayed and deifyed because (wow) they were the first ones to use the super expensive mixers and sound effects EMI bought them.

slight hijack above

In the UK, we got XFM, or rather London does, which is your alternative station. I stopped listening to this due to their policy of ‘discovering’ a record - lets take The Darkness’ ‘I believe in a thing called love’ for example, and playing it to death forever. Remember, just because you play the occasional Joy Division or Nirvana song during the daytime, it doesnt make you ‘alternative’, just like sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

79

Wow, this thread had tons of great submisions. I thought my view had been covered by other people, and in some ways it has. But then I realized that no one from the younger generation has really explained how we get music, where we hear about it, etc… I also noticed that a lot of the young people have said, yeah, the Beatles suck, they are overrated, they are only good because they had sound effects and top of the line production equipment. There is another camp that says something like, “Pop music died with the White Album, or I am young but I don’t listen to anything made after 1974” or some similiar quote.
All I can say about that is, Jesus Fucking Christ, that is scary. Hopefully I can represent the youth culture that has an appreciation of the past as well as being passionate about the present.
So first of all, the Beatles were deified because they are the best songwriters in the history of pop music. It wasn’t studio tricks (of course the master studio work is amazing in itself). You could play all of these songs on an acoustic guitar and they give you goosebumps. Sometimes they even just left it that way themselves.

   OK, I will tell you about me and my friends, and how we did the music thing throughout high school.  First thing is first.  The radio is an absolute joke.  It is not an option.  When kids are drving anywhere from point A to point B there is ALWAYS a CD in.  Maybe we are the first generation that travels with so much style, with the filesharing/CD burner revolution.  Its not like when our parents were driving around they could listen to their vinyl collections.  I don't think people copied cassette tapes en masse the way CD's are copied.  Of course, buying the albums is not an option.  It is not possible to be a true music fan in today's world and play by the rules (a.k.a. purchasing all your CD's).  I could see if there were radio stations for instance, you could probably just listen to the radio all the time and only buy the albums you truley like, even if they are $14 a pop.  If this is the way the world was, I could see filesharing and CD burning not being so popular.  I think by and large, must of us who fileshare feel a little guilty about if, and would stop doing it if it were possible to do so (and still be able to keep up with music).
  
  So I have a friend who has a personal collection of 1,000 albums, all cdr's.  The best of every genre, past and present.  It's true too, and the library is growing everyday.  I am sure most groups of friends have a central "library" if I may.    Then myself, and another friend, both obbsessed with different electronica genres, are like specialty shops.  He has the best house music ever, I have the best hip hop and techno (mostly minimal).  Most were created during the Napstar/Kazaa Lite days.  You go to CDNOW (I always thought it funny that they got lots of web traffic from people like us, never with an intent for purchase), get the tracklist of the album, and then you have to go to Kazaa, search for each song, dl, put them in order.  It is a bitch actually, it takes lots of effort, buying a CD would be so much easier, if they were like a dollar I am sure no one would bother filesharing, and they would sell mass quantis amounts of CD's. 
   Anyways, when we cruise, the libray together is around 2,000 cd's.  We can pretty much listen to whatever we want, whenever we want it.  We have replaced the radio dj's with ourselves.  I know it is like this in many groups of friends.  Also, it is very common for people our age to give each other CD'rs.  It is an everday thing, like, "Hey Jake, check out the new Tortiose CD, it's killer."

-hands over cdr-
Jake: “Alright, So what exactly are we doing tonight after…”

These exchanges are completely non chalant, and happen multiple times weekly. (CD’Rs are very cheap).

BTW, now most filesharing is done whole albums at a time, so it much easier than earlier times. While all the newspapers are talking about Kazaa, most of us have well since moved on ;). Now all trades are done with full cover art scans, tracklists. It is easier for people that don’t want to put in as much effort.

What else,… Hmmm… We have all seen sattelite radio for the cars, and are impressed. Don’t know if it could quite replace our system, but it is an interesting possiblity. Not really affordable though.

OK I just want to post a few notes about the things that SCARE me:
*Wordman suggested that classic rock stations are going to be shadowed in the future with classic alternative rock stations. As in they will play nirvana, offspring, the pearl jam, over and over all the time, for literally decades straight. (the way any classic rock station seems to repeat its playlist daily). I like nirvana, and pearl jam, a lot. It’s just that I have already heard it, a lot! I can’t imagine it being idoctrinated as the official “good” music of like a 20 year span.

*The younger people in the thread that appear to be stuck on classic rock. What would be worse than classic alternative repetitive stations is if classic rock repetitive staions never went away. I love all the old stuff, I have been through everything. Few bands were mentioned on the site (by young’ins or old farts) that I was completely unfamiliar with. I just don’t want to hear Won’t Get Fooled Again twice a day, and think of it as somehow the pinaccle of modern music.

*turning into an old fart :wink:

So how do we hear about new music, and old music for that matter? Well, look on this thread alone. If you were determined to make a CD for every artist mentioned it would take you quite a long time and you would have a pretty good collection by then. At that time, you would know what you like, find similar artists with search engines, or talking to friends. It is a process that just kind of runs by itself.

    OK, now I am going to give you my 2 cents on what is the best stuff out there.  I hunted down some audion files so some of the "old farts" that don't have time to put in the effort can get a quick sample of what I really dig.
     I think rock music is quite stale.  (Well, more accurately, the 95% of any genre is crap, 5% is genious rule is always in effect).  But personlly, when I hear that 5% of indie rock when I am at the mercy of a friend's CD choice, I can tell that it is new and creative.  Sometimes I can even still rock out to something or whatever.  But my soul has I completley been overtaken by techno music.  I specifically like a genre called mininaml techno, and spin it (spin it means DJ you old farts!) locally (Minneapolis) .  I realize no one is going to like something so eccentric, so I will not bother posting anything about it really.  But I hope people will download the files I put up here, this is the electronic music that everyone universally likes.  The stuff that unites my generation....

Squarepusher #1 He’s gonna do what to you in a red hot car? Oh… Oh dear…
Squarepusher #2 PURE GENIOUS
Thomas Bangletar You should for sure listen to this one with the SO with the lights off. House music.
Dadt Punk #1 French Duo that made it to the radio without pissing all of the underground off.
Daft Punk #2
Aphex Twin Also amazing. If you liked the Squarepusher above, click here. Not full song, sorry.
DJ KRUSH Ultimate chillout from Japan. Can you say jazz?
Well, it was hard finding all those files, so if anybody digs one, shout it out!

80

fixed DJ KRUSH