I'm so pissed off at our government, please tell me there is hope.

Two months ago at the start of this war I was a flag waving, republican backing, good ole’ college boy conservative; now, since this war has proved to be nothing more than a power grab, I’m fuckin pissed. I recently (after reading nothing but right-wing literature for more than a year) began to start reading some Noam Chompsky, Howard Zinn, and other political dissidents. I can’t decide if reading this literature has made me a more knowledgeable person, or a cynical, disenfranchised youth with a grudge against the system. But anyways…this thread is meant to be nothing more than a pitting of what is being passed off as a free country; feel free to add whatever you want.

Do we have a representative democracy anymore?.. or is it something else disguised as a government “for the people, by the people.” The current political landscape, or the one since the 1930’s is, and has been, dominated by concessions to interest groups, backdoor foreign policy negotiations without voter support, and pork barrel politics that reward log rolling more than representing ones constituents. Poster boy, celebrity commentators who claim to be fair and balanced only report half the story while wrapping theselves in the psuedo-ideology of the “working class”, while backing foreign and social policies detrimental to those they claim to be looking out for. A more modern and worldy interpretation of “manifest destiny” seems to be the aim of current administration officials. The people who put the politicians in office have nearly no say in foreign policy that is dominated by under-the-radar dealings those in power have engaged in. It would almost be acceptable if this secretive style of government and world policing resulted in a safer and less destructive world, but the U.S. has turned much of Central and Latin American into dictatorships with support for brutal politicians. The exploitation of third world labor has helped make corporations more wealthy, but has hurt the moral authority of the US. The argument used by defenders of this kind of foreign policy is often, “we have done more good than harm.” Does this matter to those that are part of the trail of bodies left behind by death squads secretely sponsored by politicians that never have to answer to the public? I doubt it. Our government might be less confusing if political labels such as conservative or liberal actually meant what they are defined as. Conservatives who claim to support a small government pump billions into a costly and destructive war on drugs, with no end in sight and no intention of changing their current policies. Free thinking liberals in large numbers are subscribing to Orweillian restrictions on public and private speech, at the work place or otherwise. Maybe this wouldn’t be so bad either if our country was prospering and helping out other starving and struggling nations, but once again this isn’t the case. Our own economy is in the toilet, social security is nearing bankruptcy, and wars that are costing lives and assets are being waged based on shaky intelligence. Scandal after scandal points to government favor trading and enormous monetary mis-management. The bueauracracy our governmental model has created is eating itself alive, while politicians continue to dip their hands in OUR diminishing assets, all the while telling us we live in the greatest country in the world. And how nice it would be if the media with their swooping and unchecked political powers would ever give us the full story, instead of 30 second blurbs between commercial breaks. The 4th branch of government, the media, once considered the “watch dogs” of democracy, have turned into nothing more than the lap dogs of democracy, pandering to politicians and administration officials with soft-core reporting to get the favor of white house and congressional gate-keepers.

There is more, but writing this by ear and on the fly has made me so frustrated and angry I don’t feel like going on. If anyone has something to add, go ahead. Also, if anyone has some links to good political reads or factual history not reported in textbooks, please supply them, thanks.

You do indeed live in a democracy, dude. “November 2, 2004”. Mark your calendar and make your voice heard.

Pick one.
http://www.politics1.com/p2004.htm

Dude, you’ve just produced a pretty good 600-word essay about the state of our nation. Send that stuff to your Congressional representatives and you’ve got whatcha call yer “petitioning the Government for a redress of grievances.”

There’s hope. This country has always taken two steps forward, one step back. Sometimes it takes huge masses of people, sometimes it takes riots and shocking violence. To put it in the form of a bumper sticker, “If the people lead, eventually the leaders will follow.”

Of course, I’m kind of an idealist.

I can’t see where you are any more than a young’un who has undergone a transformation from one who fixates on what one extreme(the current Republican administration) says is truth, and then goes to the other extreme and embraces the truth of Chomsky and others on the left.

Given time, you will possibly settle into the middle, take the best part of arguments from both extremes, and form your own opinions.

Welcome to the real world.

  • fishcrawford*, there is hope. Things are not that bad.

The fact that you could safely post this OP is evidence that our society is not Orwellian.

The war against Iraq was approved by Congress. Polls show that a majority of Americans favored it. Whether or not it was a mistake, it was done democratically and constitutionally.

I will be corrected on this but I think it was Churchill that said “Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.” I think that safely sums up our government.

I have less Idea than when we started of why we went to war. I think we were lied to and although It looks as though the CIA is slated to take the fall, I don’t see any gain for them for pushing it so that makes no sense. I am don’t believe that it was fully about blood for oil, and the WMDs don’t seem to exist and the evidence used to get us into the war seems to have been easily recognisable as manufactured. It scares me that there so far seems to be no fall out from that.

All that said this is still the best it gets, and the only recourse we have is to vote. We have more tools than we did in the past. With the internet it is easier to find a money trail than it ever used to be. You can also find more like minded people out there and learn you are really not alone.

If you are really looking into Chomsky you also might want to look into Micheal Moore too, then see what you can discover in the middle. I can come up with more in the way of economic theory books here not political, perhaps others can help here.

Keep reading, ** fishcrawford, ** but read both sides.

I felt the same outrage as you when I first began looking into politics and social criticism. I still do feel it, though not about some of my original sticking points.

My first bit of advice to you: read everything. Read newspapers, magazines and books. Read everything from liberal blogs to * Reader’s Digest. * Read the NRA magazine, read * Newsweek, Time, Rolling Stone, Working Mother * and everything in between. (You never know where you’re going to pick up an interesting tidbit of public opinion.) Listen to both Rush Limbaugh and NPR. Read books by angry liberals and angry conservatives. Make a *special * effort to read things that * do not * agree with you, if for no other reason than that of the old adage: * Know Thine Enemy. *

But most of all, * never, ever * make up your mind about an issue based on information from one source, no matter how trustworthy you consider that source to be. Sincerely research both sides of an issue, and then decide, but never set your opinions in stone. Always leave room for growth and change.

Take nothing for granted. Trust no one. Never allow emotion to make your mind up for you. Listen with open ears to both sides. Think critically. Ask questions. Be able to admit when you’re wrong. Vote, and write to your representatives.

Read up on your history, too. It’s amazing how sometimes current events are almost a perfect mirror of those which happened long ago. You can also get a fuller, richer picture of international relations by understanding all of the social/political and economic relationships which have led us to this point.

You might want to consider starting your journey with a good class in Sociology. Good professors in this subject begin by breaking down all of our societal myths (which comes in handy when social policy issues are up for debate). You can learn so much about human nature, and * why * we act the way we do. It gives resonance to many of the stories in the media.

Prepare to have your sacred cows slaughtered before your eyes. When you can face that, you’re truly ready to learn.

I have not embraced the “truth” of Chompsky like I did with that of Hannity, Limbaugh, and O’Reilly. I definitely am not liberal, but I am beginning to understand that side much more clearly. I have been flirting with the ideas of the Libertarian party for about a year now, but I can’t really understand legalizing all drugs across the board and opening borders.

That is a great quote.

I subscribe to National Review, Rolling Stone, and Mother Earth News.

Besides Chompsky, what are some other well thought out dissident authors? I just can’t take Michael Moore seriously after a lot of quotes I’ve read from him.

The appropriate questions to ask, however, is why was the war approved by Congress? Why did many Americans back the war?

Is it because they were given accurate, pertinent information? As more time passes and no evidence is found, that is getting less and less likely. Congress and the American people depended equally on the Bush Administration for information which would help them make a decision about the best course of action in Iraq. So, for that matter, did many countries around the world who lacked the ability to find out for themselves. As time goes on and no credible threat to global security is produced in Iraq, it seems more and more likely that the Bush Administration misled Congress, misled the American people, and misled the international community.

Why did they do this? Because of what was the most politically sound idea? Because of what was most bereaucratically expedient? For the personal gain of their friends and associates in the business world? All or some of the above? Are these the reasons we go to war in the 21st Century? Is this what we call “democracy,” when we are misled, badgered, and bullied into war? I don’t think so.

That dog doesn’t hunt, december. It doesn’t even leave the house. The facts are stacking up against Bush and his boys, and unless they’re holding some massive ace under the table, their hand is going to lose.

fishcrawford, I think you have every right to be as pissed off as you are. At the very least, we haven’t been told the whole truth. At worst, we’ve been out-and-out lied to. I don’t claim to know which it is yet, but the idea that there is much which hasn’t been revealed to us is almost incontrovertible at this point.

Lissa’s advice is sound, no matter your political bent. Keep your ears and eyes open, watching and listening both sides. The sad fact is that the extreme left is trying just as hard as the extreme right to fulfill their agenda, and will go to almost any lengths to do it. Keep your eye on the ball, follow the money, and all that good stuff. Don’t make up your mind yet, but keep questioning what you’re told. It’s the best way to learn the truth.

Well put.

I’ve done that very thing twice now. First time I got nothing. Second time I guess enough people redressed (blue and green are NOT to be worn together;)) the government that it changed its mind, or something.

Ironically enough, both emails were about the same thing (though the latter tackled another issue as well).

Hey, 50% ain’t half bad, though I have yet to receive an actual response to anything I’ve written.

I’m sorry to tell you…there is no hope. At all.

The advice you have received is great.

I would like to add that the United States has not changed since it was founded. The political landscape you are currently viewing is not any worse than in the past. It seems worse for two reasons. We have more and faster information sources, a lot more people and money, and easier access to the rest of the world. All of these factors make the scandals and corruptions seem more frequent and larger. I doubt that our 19th century politicians would have behaved any better under our current circumstances.

I think in a lot of ways this country is moving forward, and making progress toward becoming a better country. Although maybe we are having a slight backward movement right now. Progress is slow, but it is constant. Don’t be fooled into thinking there is something called the good old days of America. They don’t exist. Now is the good old day.

I wouldn’t want this country to move back to before the civil rights movement, before women were granted the right to vote, before senators were elected by the people, to a time when only a select few were allowed to vote. That doesn’t mean I think we are perfect now, far from it.

The main problem I see now is a real loss of individual freedom. Some of it is a result of the government, and some of it results from our current popular culture. TV and movies make national conformity seem the norm. But the main loss comes from the increases in population. More people leads to more laws and rules defining and restricting behavior. I sometimes think the government gets carried away trying to correct all of the social problems of the world. But on the other hand, when problems arise, the public insists that the government do something.

Despite all our problems, we still have an incredible amount of freedom, when judged by world standards. Voting is one of the best way to insure democracy survives and to preserve our personal freedoms.

Wow, Mudhollar. That was precise and easily understood statement; I think you may have just made me feel better.

Oops, hit reply before editing. That should have been: That was a precise and easily understandable piece of literature; I’m already feeling better.

Also, do you happen to live in Missouri?

Everyone else has already tossed out some good advice, so there’s only one tidbit I can contribute:

Don’t give up on the cynicism entirely – a little bit works wonders as a “reality check” against whatever information you’re receiving at the moment. The trick is to not let the cynicism completely overwhelm you, where you feel that nothing you do makes a difference; because if you truly believe that, then the darkness has won.

**

That’s a start. Again, though, make sure you read things from a point of view with which you do not agree. It broadens the mind.

Russ Kick has has a few books which are collections of essays, * You Are Being Lied To * and * Everything You Know is Wrong. * There’s also a brand new one, but its name escapes me. (See www.disinfo.com for more information.) Some of the essays I agree with . . . others I think are full of shit. However, they’re interesting books, and you can learn a lot from them. The web site actually has a lot of the essays posted online. You can get a good sampling based on subject.

Naomi Klein’s * No Logo * is an interesting book on the “branding” of America and corporate tactics. * Moral Panics * by Erich Goode and Nachman Ben-Yehuda is a Sociology book which I recommend.

*Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds * by Charles MacKay and Andrew Tobias is a book written in the 1800s, but can still be applied today.

James Loewen’s * Lies My Teacher Taught Me * is a good place to start if you’re looking for your history to be debunked. (Take parts of it with a grain of salt, however, and research further.)

*The Way We Never Were *by Stephanie Coontz is a great commentary on the “nostalgia trap”-- thinking that everything was better “back then.”

If you’d like more, let me know. (I’m an avid reader with thousands of books in my personal library.)

Well, you could start by getting his name right. There’s no “p” in it. :slight_smile:

A good place to start for stuff on current events is actually the internet, and magazines. The content is often very recent. Looking at places like this and sampling some of the different authors will also give you a sense of whose work you like, and whose you are less interested in.

May i suggest:

Websites:

ZNet: this is a website with politics and writings from the liberal, libertarian left, socialist left, marxist left, and just about every other left. The essays and articles deal with just about every conceivable issue, and there are hundreds of links to other sites. You might also try Z Magazine. available in many bookstores.

CommonDreams; this site advertises itself as “Breaking News and Views for the Progressive Community.” Many of the authors from ZNet also appear here, although there are also some more mainstream writers like Paul Krugman.

Counterpunch: a political newsletter put out by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair.

Magazines:

Columbia Journalism Review: provides excellent analysis of the news media.

The Progressive: as the name suggests, a magazine with progressive, left-liberal politics.

The Nation: liberal weekly news magazine.

Dollars and Sense: a left perspective on economic issues.

Harper’s: excellent literary and political magazine. Read the article on the federal budget by Thomas Frank in this month’s issue–it’s excellent.

I’m still waiting for my voice to be heard from November 7, 2000.

Oh, I love this book. I read it originally mainly for the section on “tulipomania,” but the whole thing is great. Recommendation heartily seconded!

Dang… thought I was in Cafe Society there for a sec. :wink: