I'm starting to get the feeling that the conservative right is winning

I agree that the conservatives are winning on the legislative and judicial battlefields. But they are losing on others.

First, the MSM that the conservatives revile so hard. I was never a big TV watcher pre-pandemic, but I’ve watched plenty since.

I’m not talking about Fox vs CNN and MSNBC. I’m not even talking about Ellen and Will and Grace and Modern Family. All across the TV spectrum, gay marriage and interracial marriage and single motherhood have been normalized and mainstreamed, and transgenderism is getting there. Diversity and equality is celebrated, both in programming and commercials. Law and Order continually explores social issues, almost always from the liberal POV. Reality show contestants look down on Trump supporters.

I mentioned in another thread recently that I’ve noticed this thing where characters in non-political popular novels make fun of conservative Antifa panic.

I sometimes play this little interior design game on my iPad, kind of a grown-up paint by numbers when players compete by applying different fabrics and finishes to sketches of rooms. Sounds innocuous, right? But each room sketch is accompanied by a brief, a description of the client what they want for the room. And the designs are frequently being done for gay couples, interracial couples, unmarried couples of both genders, single parents and transgender people of both genders, plus special designs celebrating things like Pride week.

This is important because most people aren’t politically active or socially aware. Their viewpoints aren’t being determined by articles in the Atlantic or reporting on CNN, they’re being shaped by Law and Order and American Idol and the games they play on their phone.

Really, I think the one of the reasons conservatives watch Fox so much is that’s it’s really the only channel on the dial that’s they can stomach . Maybe the History Channel, with its odd synthesis of World War 2 documentaries and conspiracy theory entertainment — expect even that channel has its share of Black Lives Matter commercials and Juneteenth documentaries.

Secondly, there’s the public education system that consistently promotes values of equality and diversity. Yes, the conservatives are desperately trying to change this through legislation but I think the attitudes are already too deeply ingrained and they have very little chance of success.

Lastly, I think that large corporations are going to start trending more liberal as the Republican Party moves towards radicalism. The younger, newer, Big Tech companies have pushed corporate culture to the left. Another factor is that liberals have outsized spending power - I think it’s partly because workers in large cities have lots more disposable income than similarly situated people in areas with lower costs of living.

I think the crazy push by conservatives to impose minority rule by rigging the legislature and judiciary is sort of a Flight 93 moment on their part, a last desperate attempt to hang onto something that they’ve already lost.

Are they going to win? I don’t think so. Are we going to win? Probably not. Because this isn’t the kind of fight you win, it’s the kind of fight you fight. I think that sometimes there’s this perception on both sides that if you win the big election, you’re going to get everything you want and the fight be over and we’ll all be living in progressive utopia, or conservative utopia. But that’s not how it works.

The continuation of actual democracy in the USA beyond 10-20 years is a fifty-fifty proposition at best.

One saying I’ve heard is that most Republicans wouldn’t mind living under a bridge, eating a rat, as long as the guy next to him only has half a rat. Sounds right to me.

I also like to think of it this way.

Democrats = a rising tide lifts all boats.

Republicans = I’ve got mine so fuck you. Even if “mine” amounts to very little.

Republicans (and conservatives broadly) tend to embrace a world of hierarchy, and in most cases, they probably see themselves at the top of the food chain. That, in my estimation, is what leads us to the central question(s) we as a country are trying to answer.

Are we a country that adheres to 18th and 19th Century definition of liberty, which understands liberty to mean the freedom to dominate other individuals and groups without government intervention?

Or do we subscribe to the definition of liberty that is based on the values of transparency, truth, inclusion, and some basic economic protections?

I fear we’re underestimating the number of people in this country who subscribe to that first view of liberty.

That could very well be. I get the feeling that some voters of the Democratic coalition subscribe to the “I’ve got mine so fuck you” mindset. It just so happens that they don’t yet have theirs, so they vote Democratic. Once they get theirs, they will start voting Republican. The increased Republican share of the vote in the Rio Grande Valley and Miami in 2020 are examples of this.

Modern Republicanism has three main tenets: America-first nationalism, rejection of left-wing liberalism, and low taxes. Trumpism was a loud, pugnacious form of American nationalism, but most Republicans agree with it’s basic beliefs: patriotism, economic protectionism, restricted immigration, limited foreign engagement, and a lack of obligation to multi-nations organisations and agreements. America is slowly becoming more socially liberal and many conservatives, especially older ones, do dislike that trend. However, for most conservatives, it depends on how the social issue is framed. For example, the majority of Republicans support marijuana legalisation. Two-thirds of Americans support marijuana legalization | Pew Research Center That’s based on a combination of a common-sense approach for legalising medical marijuana, past personal experience of many Republicans with marijuana, libertarian ideals, and recognition of past failed policies. Many other socially liberal objectives, such as gay marriage, may not be embraced by Republicans but are widely accepted. However, confrontational liberalism is widely rejected. The idea of being forced to accept, or even espouse a liberal position is anathema to a big portion of Republicans. In other words, they might be apathetic or even tolerant towards gay marriage, but they’ll be up in arms over being forced to wear a pride badge. And unfortunately, confrontational liberalism is the sort of liberalism most in view. Sometimes it almost seems like a competition among the far left to see who can be the most loudly woke. Meanwhile, on the other side, wokism is rejected as ridiculous pretentious postering. The rejection of confrontational liberalism is even more pronounced if it is viewed as anti-police or anti-military. It’s a reinforcement of the Republican’s self-professed patriotism. Republicans mostly didn’t support Black Lives Matter, but most were appalled by the death of George Floyd and many acknowledged a need for reform. But then the Defund the Police movement gained prominence, and simply reinforced core Republican conservative values. As for low taxes, it seems to be part of the American condition that everyone wants government benefits that benefit them yet noone wants to pay. Republicans just want to pay less and Democrats want the benefits more.

Put it all together, and the Republicans have a package that appeals to a big proportion of America. The Democrats could counter that package with a message of moderation and shared values. In fact, Biden pretty much did that and won over a lot of white suburban voters. But the left-wing element of the Democratic party has gone right back on form, jumping up and down about every leftist issue they view as progressive (which is an inaccurate description of most of their policies) and excoriating anyone who disagrees with them. It makes it easy for the Republicans to hold onto their base and retain control at the local levels.

On the other hand, the Democrats would rather everyone had half a rat rather than anyone had two.

If he connived the other three halves from people, you betcha.

IMHO, a lot of people are overthinking conservative motives. Conservatives are far less split along the lines of gender, race, as one may think. It all comes down to Team Red vs Team Blue. I once saw a Trump supporter - a Hispanic woman, at that - who was gloating about how she rubbed it in the face of anti-Trumpers that “Trump is your president whether you like it or not.” When a Hispanic woman can be gleeful that way about Trump, you know team loyalty trumps race and gender.

Typical. Left-wingers believe that rat-catching is a zero-sum game. If someone’s a better rat-catcher than they are, it’s because the game is rigged and the successful rat-catcher is cheating and stealing. Matching the analogy to reality, there are plenty of rats to go around, someone who comes up with a better rat-catching technique is benefitting everyone who eats rats, and the guy with half a rat was given that half-rat and is complaining because he wasn’t given a whole one.

Thanks. This is the first time I’ve ever heard of “confrontational liberalism” which apparently involves forcing people to wear pride badges.

Curious to know if this has ever happened in the history of ever.

I did specify connived. If you think the only way someone’s a better rat catcher is by conniving then that’s on you. Typical right winger.

Well, you’re the one who’s using a partial quote in order to change the context, so we can see which side is doing the conniving.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/health-service-acting-like-stasi-with-pride-pledge-bwpmkhz2g (paywalled - first paragraph is readable)

And we’ll see which side smears with a wider brush.

Well I could easily quote the several anti-Republican left-wing smears in this thread, but I’m sure you’ve already read them - including the anti-Republican shot that started the rat analogy.

Yanno what? You’ve convinced me of the error in my ways – conservatism is the only path to the One True America. Is voting Republican sufficient or do I have to also join the Oath Keepers/Proud Boys/3%ers? Is looking the other way while they destroy democracy in America enough? Got a list of abortion clinics to picket before they become illegal? How about going to Georgia and dashing water bottles out of the hands of people waiting in line to vote?

All over half-a rat.

Terrific. Irrationality, overheated emotionalism, hyperbole, and looseness with inconvenient facts all seem to be inherent characteristics of liberal speech. It’s good that you’ve rejected those attributes of liberalism, even if your posts continue to display them.

I said you won; what more do you want from me? I’m not sucking T*****'s dick if that’s what you want.