Yeah, the “what comes next” thing is a big part of it. A good friend of mine passed away last year. When we first heard about the new Star Wars movie coming out, we made plans to go see it together, as it comes our the day before my birthday. But then he went and died on me, and now he’ll never get to see it. Seems like a small thing, but it’s just one example. I’d hate to miss out like he has.
Then there’s this point:
Sure, you might get bored. But if that happens, you can always choose to commit suicide. But that would be your choice. I hate that the random violence of the universe is going to go ahead and make that choice for me some day.
I am not under the illusion that my consciousness depends on my physical body, so I don’t fear its demise. In fact I think that the idea of permanent biological life is a hellish one. I don’t want to be trapped in a meat sack forever. Anti-aging to remove the disastrous effects the aging process has on the body would be nice, but there is no way I am sticking around forever. If they start thinking about making immortality compulsory I’ll make sure to kill myself before they can get to me.
Oh, not at all! The world is a fascinating and ever-changing place. By the time you’ve seen it all, most of the first stuff you saw has been replaced by even more new stuff. Plus, a great many experiences, such as the beauty of nature or the taste of good food, never lose their appeal. In all my thousands of years, I’ve never found living to be a bore.
For the first one: once living to 300 becomes the norm, everything will stretch out to occupy the time - You will finish school at 75, work for 135 years, retire at 195 and slowly decay over the next 100 years.
It would be unlikely that the surrounding world and its events would still occur at the rate we have with a lifetime of 74 years.
-OR-
You spend 30 years with acne.
The second - true immortality.
Like Dracula?
The Wandering Jew? (Christian legend)
Zombies?
I have never heard of an immortal human who really enjoyed his status.
And: If you ARE immortal, suicide is impossible - you are stuck for all eternity.
Note:
AIUI, the human brain cannot visualize numbers greater than 10,000. Imagine a tray with 10,000 marbles, arranged 100x100 - how clearly can you imagine 589 over, 32 up?
Now: exactly how well can you really comprehend friggin’ eternity?
Our sun is predicted to die in 3 billion years. Or - in the blink of an immortal’s eye.
I got bored with cars before I graduated from grade school. I haven’t been to an auto show in 40+ years.
Some time ago a man told me he LOVED CARS. I asked him what a cam shaft was. He didn’t know. The things are still basically the same but with crappy software messing up the crappy mechanics. The VolksWagen software controlled pollution is pretty funny though.
I confess I really can’t imagine what I might think/feel after 300 years. And I just picked that number because it is so far out it is somewhat beyond my current imagination. Humans seem to find more complicated ways of getting dumber though.
And note that the false dilemma is always “Live forever, whether you want to or not” vs the status quo. Then you’re supposed to conclude we’re better off as is.
When there are many alternatives between the situation right now and godlike, many of which have the bonus of being physically possible (unlike forced eternity).
Hi, I’m back. I’m really enjoying the discussion so far. And yes, I presume that, if I did not currently exist, I wouldn’t be. C’est la vie.
For a very long time, it wasn’t my time. I am fine with that. Now it is my time. I’m fine with that. Later, for a very long time (I hope, for the sake of humanity), it won’t be my time anymore. I’m fine with that. Where is the contradiction?
There’s no contradiction, per se, if (a) you’re currently fine with continuing your existence, as you apparently have for your whole life thus far – and (b) someday things might change and you’ll apparently be fine with dying.
I’m just saying it seems equally sensible to say that (a) I’m fine with continuing my existence, as I have for my whole life thus far – and that (b) in the absence of a reason to stop, I’ll still be fine with continuing to exist.
I’m not even sure I need that “(b)” in there; it’s maybe, like, implied.
Seriously, true immortality would suck. Given a lifespan as long as the Universe, there is a statistical certainty that I will end up floating in intergalactic space, or stuck in a star for a few billion years. No thank you.
If I stare at a blank wall for an hour and think of nothing, I consider that to be less conscious than being fully engaged with a vibrant environment and thinking active thoughts. I prefer the later because the former is very boring.
Extrapolating beyond this premise, I believe being non-conscious (i.e. dead) would be even more boring than being semi-conscious and therefore even less desirable. I imagine I’d be bored to death.
I don’t desire immortality because that in and of itself, sounds very boring. I just want to live to be 500. I’d want to age properly, only in slow motion, such that I die at age 500 in my former 30 year old body. I want to die during sex with a hot 300 year old woman (with an 18 year old body). That would indeed be a very happy ending.
True immortality that doesn’t suck, i.e. stuck in one place for billions of years.
Any sort of life in which I’d be able to incrementally engineer my brain to no longer care about death.
Any sort of really long life.
The current life.
True immortality in which I am trapped with no stimulation for trillions of years.
Why do I want immortality? Because I am a biological being with a built-in aversion to dying. Beings who didn’t care if they died didn’t survive.
Ah, but B is necessary, because there is a reason to stop; it’s called death.
I’m trying to be very practical here. There is a natural rhythm of birth, growth, life and death common to all living things. I’m not asking “Why fight it?”; I’m asking “Why, as a characteristic of our species, do many of us feel such a need to fight it?” Maybe the deeper question - or one for another thread - is, “Is conscious self-awareness a blessing or a curse?”
I think the main issue is the body/mind confusion. As long as you think you are your body, and only your body, you will probably have a fear of death in the system. When exclusive association with the body disappears, or total identification with awareness/consciousness happens, the different phobias around death seem to alleviate and disappear. Death is then seen either simply as silence/rest or as a gateway to the bardo/afterlife. Either is fine by me.
If people want to live longer because they really enjoy life, that seems admirable and a healthy reason to try to extend your lifespan. But if it’s just to avoid death, it seems more like a psychological issue. Resolving death is pretty important if you want to live a life without fear and phobias.
You’re deriving an ‘ought’ from an ‘is’. I have no use for something simply because it’s natural; I often prefer the alternative; why should this be any different?
It’s not just the metformin that extends life. Those of us with Type II diabetes are now aware we have to watch our diet and exercise more or we’ll live the rest of our life in pain and lose a few digits to gangrene along the way. I look at it as the “wages of sin.” When I was 20, I didn’t care so much if the food I was eating was bad for me. I could drink alcohol to excess and not feel as bad afterwards as I would today.
As far as living as long as possible goes, I certainly don’t want that. If I ever get to the state where I can’t wipe my own ass, I want to be euthanized PDQ!
