Good Lord, man, is this the best thing you can rant about? A bumper sticker?
I fail to understand how both Blackclaw and **Polycarp[B/] come to the conclusion that the Rapture bumper sticker in question says, in effect, “Nyah nyah I’m going to Heaven and you ain’t!” It says nothing of the sort.
If you see a bumper sticker proclaiming allegiance to a particular sports team, do you automatically assume that the bumper sticker also says “Hey every other sports team – you suck! And your fans, too!” If you see a bumper sticker or a decal promoting a rock band, is that a critical treatise on all other forms of music?
Geez. Open your eyes. There’s more to the world than you. Don’t project your prejudices on others.
Yeesh, is it my fate to argue quasi-religious subjects with posters whose usernames are the evil powers of various systems? First Satan, then oldscratch, now Sauron. Attention Lurkers: Iblis and Ahriman are open for grabs, as are a number of subordinate demonological names: Moloch, Melkarth, Ashmedai. I’d give anything to see a user call himself Lucifuge Rofocale and know what the name is supposed to mean.
Anyway: I take the implication of the mindset of the person with the bumper sticker under advisement. If you noted, I started my post with a disclaimer that the function might not be what I assumed for the rest of it. Beyond that, I see a very strong tendency to judgmentalism and a divisive us-vs.-them attitude in many – not all – of the conservative Christians who would be apt to use such a bumper sticker. I gave my reaction to them and what I thought the Man they’ve taken as Lord and Savior might feel about their mindset. I intentionally did not tar everyone who chooses that form of witness with the idea, but suggested that as a stereotype, generalized and covering a majority but not all such people, that was my reaction. For all I know, Navigator and Lauralee, two people who hold by the God of love in a very conservative interpretation and whom I consider dear friends, may well have such a bumpersticker, and I’d certainly never tar them with that brush.
But as a general overall marker of an attitude, I don’t think I’m wrong. And I’m fairly certain what Jesus thinks of that attitude – He made it plenty clear to the guys He hung out with, who furnished the information to his biographers. And since, other than being an annoyance if you don’t believe in the Christian God at all, its only significance is relative to something He supposedly promised to do, I think how He feels has some merit in the discussion.
I don’t have to take any crap from someone who can’t figure out how to use the bold command.
Hey, I said I was feeling grumpy. Are there more important things in the world than bumper stickers? Sure, but the thread really isn’t about bumber stickers, it’s about the existence of God, Rapture, and what place self-rightous assholes play in my little realm of reality.
And the message conveyed, in this case by a bumber sticker, is not that my sports team is better. No, it’s on an entirely different level. It says that I have all the answers. I have judged myself and found myself worthy of redemption. Now that’s a pretty egotistical statement. If you claim that your sports team is the best and they win a championship well that’s all well and good but it doesn’t really affect my life if I didn’t share your belief. But if I don’t share Mr. Holy’s belief, at the very least I’m going to get stuck in traffic. And that’s enough for a rant right there. Apparently there are even more dire consequences than that to follow, but to espouse on those I’d have to read into what exactly is meant by “Rapture” and you’ve already made it clear that you don’t like me projecting too much into such things.
It should also be kept in mind that despite the weighty matters that this thread touches upon, I’m not being entirely serious.
And you’re basing this opinion of yours on a sample of exactly how many conservative Christians? You’ve done statistically relevant surveys, I presume, since as you noted, you’re using a pretty broad brush there.
Incidentally, you do realize you’re being just as closed-minded as the conservative Christians you’re rebuking, don’t you? “Based on a bit of minutiae on the back of your car, I know what you’re thinking and your attitude, and you should know Jesus disapproves of both.” Sorry. In my book that makes you as narrow-minded as the fundies who berate people for wearing t-shirts from rock concerts.
I wonder why people put ANY bumper stickers on their car. Or slogans on their T-shirts, for that matter. What makes them think I am interested in a total stranger’s opinion—much less the opinion of a total stranger’s car?
If I saw a “Gore/Lieberman” sticker during the election, all I might think is, “hmmm. Another Democrat.” If I saw a “Bush/Cheney” sticker, I wouldn’t go, “Hey! That bumper sticker convinced me—I’m votin’ Republican!”
Likewise, religious bumper stickers do nothing more than vaguely annoy me, on the few occasions I even notice them. Why are they THERE? What purpose is served by slathering your car with these things?
You’d be surprised. I just read the circular reasoning of someone claiming that Adam and Eve and all of them weren’t committing incest. I’m tempted to post “this circular reasoning brought to you by the letter J”. Instead I just emailed the guy and asked him if he could teach me to do what he did.
I only hope he doesn’t take me seriously.
And some of my friends (to use a word loosely) have those truth fish and those rapture stickers. Uck.
Ack! It’s the Darwin fish thread, come back from the dead.
Just for the record, seeing a Christian fish on a car fills me with rage. I also automatically hate anyone who wears a cross around their neck. I believe that anyone who dares to express an opinion contrary to mine deserves the Death of Ten Thousand Papercuts with Lemon Juice Poured into Them.
Oh, no, wait, that’s wrong. If somebody goes to the store, buys a bumper sticker, cleans off his bumper with soap and water as directed by the sticker instructions, and pastes that sticker on there, he is making NO STATEMENT WHATSOEVER and if ANYONE has ANY emotional reaction WHATSOEVER, they are being COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE and they should JUST LIGHTEN UP since to attempt to GUESS at the mental state of the bumper sticker owner is DEAD WRONG.
Couple of weeks ago, I was waiting in line behind an ancient Renault 25 (easily 15 years old) at a petrol station. On the back of the trunk lid, there was one of the well-known Jesus Fish Stickers. Obviously, this guy was the second owner, as there were scratches all around the fucking fish from trying to take it off. Apparently, fundies have great glue, because it was still there in all its glory. Which is why the new owner must have resorted to his second option: putting a giant silver reflecting shark sticker with open mouth right behind the Jesus Fish, as if it were homing in on its target.
SAURON, you’re whipping the wrong dog. POLY is our resident tolerant Christian, and if that’s his initial reaction to those bumper stickers, then it’s safe to say a LOT of people read them that way. BLACKCLAW did. I do.
“In case of rapture, this car will be unmanned” equates directly to “I am saved.” (Or else the car would not be unmanned at the rapture.) “I am saved!” is itself a boastful, counter-productive neener-neener-neener thing to say, prompting no response other than a dry “good for you” or a sarcastic “congratulations.” It may not in fact carry the implication “I am saved! (And you are not)” but I don’t think it’s the huge jump you think it is to get there from here. Not to mention that a person’s salvation is arguably of enough import that it deserves more respect and thought than would be indicated by an aphorism on a car bumper.
I’m a Christian and I hate those bumper stickers. They strike me as smug and self-congratulatory – traits I don’t personally consider very Christian. I far prefer the interrogative “Are You Saved?” which at least indicates some concern (albeit uninvited) about the state of my soul, as opposed to mere congratulation about the state of the driver’s.
Anyway, the world would be a heck of a lot better place if everybody’s minds were as closed as POLY’S.
Sauron, for what it’s worth, Polycarp knows many more Christians of all stripes than you give him credit for. While he needs no defenders, being all grown up now, I’ll comment further anyway. Poly is a fine man and an extremely devoted Christian. He is very close to many arch-conservative evangelicals and fundamentalists; more, I’ll warrant, than you. Calling him narrow-minded is not at all insulting–it is completely and utterly laughable.
You’re free to disagree with his opinion. But it might be good to realize that he is not talking out of his ass.
I don’t generally have that much sympathy for Catholic theology, but on this there right on: it’s incorrect for a person to state that he knows the state either of his own soul or someone else’s. Only God can know this. They’re very explicit on this.
Yes, but not all Christians are Catholics. On my other MB there are quite a few people who are just hell-bent on the idea that they’ve been saved and known they were saved since they were kids. Really kinda funny, once you get past the absurdity (to me) of it all.
“I have judged myself and found myself worthy of redemption.”
It’s saying something far more egotistical, IMO: “God thinks I’m better than you, and I know so because He told me because God talks to me.”
The people who say God talks to them and the people God talks two are groups almost independent of eachother.
Sauron, you’re about as likely to win a debate with Polycarp about Christians as you are to be Christ himself—it would take an act of God. And God likes Polycarp.
Well as some people learned during a couple Christmas threads here in the Pit, I am a non-denominational Christian. I believe in God and Christ and that all in all I’ve been a pretty good person. But I would NEVER assume that I’ve been so undeniably good that I’ll be whisked up to Heaven in case of Rapture. At first, I was afraid this would be another us-vs-them threads, but I have to agree with what Blackclaw said:
“I have judged myself and found myself worthy of redemption. Now that’s a pretty egotistical statement.”
It is an egotistical, proud, vain, and arrogant thing to say about yourself, even if it was meant in humor (which I believe it was).
And just because when people hear Christian they think Republican, I’d just like to remind people I’m a Democrat (this has happens almost every time I state my religion).
I’m with Eve on this one – why do you care what’s on someone else’s car? Or why would you even put something on your car. Hell, I still see Clinton/Gore bumper stickers on people’s cars - what were they thinking, that these things will just fall off by themselves after the election? Personally, the only thing on my car is the paint, because I am convinced that one day I will sell the car or trade it in. I’m also convinced the person who gets the car after me is not concerned with whether I’d Rather Be Golfing or It’s Not My Fault - I Voted for Gore!. I doubt that they’d be impressed if they bought my Ford Focus knowing that My Other Car Is a Porche.
Poly- my guess is that a lot of those folk will be going to heaven- but I am dead sure that they will be VERY suprized by who else is there! My only consolation over the fact that someday i will die- is that I can hang out with you near the Pearly gates and watch the look on some of those “holier than thou” folks when they get there, and get a loooonng dressing down by St Peter himself about that attitude.
