Ukraine itself was not a threat. But it was being shaped to be a threat.
You folks are really ignorant of how certain western countries have planned to break up and subjugate Russia. As well as other countries that might threaten their dominance.
Ukraine was in a great situation for some time. Unfortunately Russia and the west were constantly messing around with it. That kept it from really getting on its feet and taking advantage of its position, geographically. economically and politically. It allowed and probably encouraged the corruption and such. When super powers mess around in a country it allows the corrupt to gain stronger footholds. Each side uses and supports them.
Ukraine was mostly neutral, most of the time. Both sides should have left it alone to chart its own path. Where it is located, the best path would have been neutral. ( I think most countries are best that way ) Take the best from both sides. Be a pass through for trade. They had the fuel pass through benefits already. Build on that.
But both sides wanted to use it.
Russia didn’t want to move in, but also did not want NATO to move in. That was the breaking point.
Both sides should have left Ukraine to be a non aligned country.
Most of the shit in this world is someone trying to dominate someone else. Use them, control them.
And let’s not forget the appalling antisemitism displayed by Putin when he “justifies” his attack on Ukraine by calling its government Nazis when the president of Ukraine is Jewish.
You can’t even get two sentences out before stating a very blatant and obvious lie. Ukraine was never in the Warsaw Pact. Ukraine was a Soviet Socialist Republic and part of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics when the Warsaw Pact was around.
Why gosh, I’m shocked, shocked I say to discover you blame the US for Russia invading Ukraine comrade.
Your “I’m Ukrainian, really guys” schtick would sound a lot more plausible without spewing Russian propaganda straight out of the Kremlin’s talking points, comrade.
Oh yeah, also go fuck yourself you useless piece of shit Kremlin shill.
I’m wondering how long he can manaage to keep up this sophomoric fascination with authoritarianism. His post which you just quoted is very idicative of a sophomore slump, not up to the level of his usual blather.
Has it been “explained” somewhere in this thread exactly how Ukraine became a puppet threat to Russia? I think what I might be asking is how NATO is a preemptive military threat to Russia? Not an obstacle to Russia’s expansion, but a “we can’t ignore this provocation” military threat? What was going to happen if Ukraine joined NATO?
Russia’s overt excuse is that a hostile military alliance on their borders is automatically a threat, because they might choose to invade, or that it puts missile systems in closer range for a decapaitation strike, or that it lets them place early-warning radar closer to Russian launch sites (Russia is already big mad about the one in Poland). If you point out that NATO is a defensive alliance, they’ll point to the 1999 Kosovo liberation campaign where Serbia (big Russian ally) got bombed. They point out that the US threatened nuclear war when Russia put missles on their doorstep in Cuba. So their overt reasons are not entirely unreasonable.
There’s also the propaganda reason of “they’re Nazis, and Nazis are destined to attack us.” It’s stupid and demonstrably not true, but it works for domestic consumption.
Of course Russia’s real and more powerful reason is that Russia wants to subjugate its neighbors without Western interference. A core part of Russian ideology is their manifest destiny to conquer Ukraine. They will never abandon this dream, so they aim to preserve all the necessary conditions to make it happen (specifically, keeping Ukraine disarmed and out of NATO).
What is the context of those remarks? Because Putin is a warmongering egomaniac who wants to recapture the glory days of the Soviet Union. He has already subsumed Chechnia (though they tried resisting and got branded Islamic terrorists on the world stage) and Georgia (which apparently rolled over) and the Crimea. He attacked Ukraine on a variety of false pretexts. It is a certainty that if Putin wins in Ukraine, he will not stop.
We are basically watching the scenario that NATO was founded to resist play out. There is no question that if Ukraine loses, we [NATO] are facing a military confrontation with Russia. Far better to arm and support Ukraine with everything we can while letting the war play out as contained than actively engage NATO forces, and make the fighting global, if not nuclear.
It is money well-spent to put a stop to Russia without spending American lives and global war.
There’s nothing to debate with liars like @Kedikat. Putin and his underlings have stated their goals publicly - they believe Ukraine is not a real country, not a real people, and has always been and should always be a part of Russia. It’s not about any threat, except a threat against Putin’s imperialist fantasies.
Ukraine’s history is a vassal state of the USSR. When the Soviet Union broke up, Ukraine was still under the influence and control of Russia. The corrupt criminal element that took over Russia via its change to capitalism is the same element that took control in Ukraine. They were culturally and politically tied together.
But the Ukrainian people wanted change. They wanted a true democracy. They protested, they marched, they voted. They elected Zelinski because he ran on a campaign of fighting corruption. His celebrity status helped, but it was his ideas that won.
The curious thing is that Zelinsky was a celebrity in Russia. His political position on Crimea was to avoid conflict and negotiate with Putin. But then a big summit was held, facilitated by Germany and IIRC France. During that summit, Putin showed he was not negotiating in good faith. That is when Zelinsky changed his mind, and went all in on opposing Russia.
Watch “Superpower”, by Sean Penn. It explores all this in detail.
Putin lies. The US and the West were not pushing Ukraine to join NATO. Ukraine was seeking NATO membership. The west had reservations, largely about corruption and the need for more democratic reforms. Plus the fact that Ukraine was disputing with Russia and NATO didn’t want to have a member join that was already at war with Russia.
You state that The West is pushing all these countries to join, but the reality is these countries are seeking NATO membership themselves, because the fear exactly what Putin has been doing - gobbling up former Soviet vassal states. They want NATO protection, just like Ukraine did.
The general rule of thumb is that if there is something that you as person with no technical military knowledge can think up in your spare time on your couch, chances are that one of the thousands of people whose job it is to think of solutions to these problems as if their lives depended on it (because they probably do) has already thought of your idea and has either implemented it on the battlefield, or has rejected it as impractical or impossible.