Got it, next time I’ll put it in quotes, but I was doing my best to be transparent by clearly calling out that it was an AI summary. I’ll bounce on over to ATMB and check out the thread.
ETA: I only used the AI that popped up because that info is pretty well known and documented.
Barely-moderating:
And you did fine, you were very clear that it was an AI summary, and even used italics to try to draw attention to it. I just made the “style” correction, and used it as a teaching moment, while making clear it wasn’t an actual rules violations. No problemo. If anyone else reading this has a question or concern, please check the ATMB link I provided, and contribute there so as not to sidetrack this thread.
Besides the previously discussed issue of how limiting the franchise is consistently abused, I think that most of what worries people isn’t low intelligence, but bad judgement. A dumb but careful & sensible person can often function better than a smart one prone to self delusion (wilful or otherwise).
However we’re even worse at measuring (or even defining) judgement than intelligence. And we’d still be stuck with the issue of it being abused.
A ex-friend who turned out to be a fascist-friendly was extremely bright, with a high I.Q. He knew, and practiced making music, was very technically savvy, and understood computer code to a certain extent…
Paranoid dude.
What’s ‘Good Judgment’ COULD be subjective, right? Abuse is absolutely something that seems occur, in some form, on some level, most often. How to minimize for net benefit, not sure….? Um, A.I.? 
(Hopefully, I interpreted your comment right)
You calling me out in front of everyone? 
(I’m pretty dumb)
The thing is, it seems like these people have to totally dissociate their political views from the rest of their life in ways that challenge one’s suspension of disbelief. You get the impression from threads like these that they are constantly seething under their breath any time they see a member of a despised group, be it at the grocery store, the neighborhood bar, or even a football game. Yet they’ll cheer for people of these very same minorities when they play these very same sporting contests.
It’s like these attitudes only rise when they are thinking specifically of politics and DFT, but during the rest of their typical day said feelings all retreat out of awareness, otherwise I cannot see how they can possibly function day to day.
Listen. I get being pissed and I will die angry that humans can be this way. I worry people understand the role they’ve played on some levels, but can’t admit to being wrong. It’s a matter of pride for a lot of them, I think. Sunk cost fallacy.
I’ve been trying to get out of my bubble since I ended my friendship with a fascist, who was sort of my conduit to a bigger friend group, and in doing so, I’m shock at my (circumstantial) experience. So many people voted AGAINST their own interests, and how does a privileged white dude address something like that?
Not for that reason, but the folks I’ve been having lasting relationships with would never have voted for him.
I was joking about it being a viable idea; but my point was that if not something like tests to be allowed to vote, then flat-Earthers, anti-vaxxers, or even Sovereign Citizens (if they care to) must be allowed to vote. If there’s some magic way to ensure that only the right people vote without explicitly denying popular suffrage, I’m waiting to hear it. “Education” doesn’t cut it, because we’re talking about the people who won’t or can’t be educated in liberal values.
Right?
Amygdala’s being “too large”? But you don’t believe eugenics
Kinda thing.
EDIT: In bringing this up, I was told that people who have larger amygdala’s mainly survived because of shared science, which many of them object to, at least if it ‘feels Satanic’ to them, or whatever. Not sure if true.
Sure; because then those minorities are in their Proper Place. It’s like watching performing animals to such people, they don’t consider the animals equals.
“The lesser races are better at sports because they are less human and more bestial than white people” has been a racist canard for a long time now.
My brother!
Of course there is: “I’m a bigot, misogynist, fanatical evangelist & terminally ignorant and think POTUS should be somebody sympathetic to my views and not to woke libbrul views”.
Not a particularly good one I’ll grant you but if you are a self-confessed bigot, misogynist, fanatical evangelist & terminally ignorant which handle are you going to pull in the sanctity of the ballot box?
Except that the alternative is to say “Sorry, persecuted minority - we’d love to give you equal rights and justice and all that, but it might upset the malignant bigots who are persecuting you. But hey - if you can just convince at least half the population that you deserve basic human rights, we’ll consider giving them to you. Maybe.”
The Loving decision came at a time when only a minority of Americans supported interracial marriage, and there were a lot of people upset by it. Was it “undemocratic”? Was it “rammed down people’s throats”? Was the decision wrong because of those things?
Because 99 times out of 100, every time the right claims that something is being “rammed down their throat”, it involves them losing the ability to hurt other people. Of course, when the right impose their views on others - often when they are minority views, which is why they work so hard to subvert free and fair elections - somehow that’s perfectly fine because “fuck your feelings”.
The problem with those literacy tests is that all the ones I’ve seen reproduced on the internet were scams specifically designed and intended to disenfranchise Blacks. They contained questions about obscure and irrelevant matters, they had to be answered in a short amount fime, and even one wrong answer was disqualifying.
IQ tests would be a terrible way to establish voter competence. But how about tests that measure basic knowledge of civics? It’s astonishing how many voters cannot name the three branches of government, let alone what they do, or name their state senators, or name even one Supreme Court justice.
A case could reasonably be made that voters who have no interest in their government or any knowledge of its policies are not going to be competent voters and are a large part of the reason that there is currently a pack of imbeciles trying to run the federal government.
That’s the thing. Looking like a white thumb, myself… I feel like I’ve had to take certain insults on the chin. Can people be over sensitive? Sure. The main thing needed is for people to be able to realized they’re going to have Blind Spots, no matter what. In the end, I’m still the beneficiary of a system that prioritizes people like me over some of the other “peasants”.
That’s where I am now. I can understand how someone might have voted for Trump in 2016. As a lifelong Republican voter, I voted for Hillary because it was obvious he didn’t know diddly about squat when it came to running a country, but I didn’t know how bad he really was.
Anyone who voted for Trump in 2024 did so with full knowledge he is a grifting, venal rapist. As Trump liked to remind us, “What did you expect? I’m a snake.”
My MAGA sister has a master’s degree, a MAGA friend of mine is a helicopter mechanic, another (former) MAGA friend of mine was nuclear engineer, and my mother, just posessing an associates is probably one of the least educated MAGA I know. I might have a skewed perspective, but I don’t believe being uneducated is the primary cause of the MAGA movement.
The biggest problem I’ve run into when I talk to MAGA followers is they’re willful ignorance. They tend to shut down when faced with evidence that runs contrary to their beliefs. They have a tendancy to completely disengage. Many of them don’t understand why non-MAGA are mad at them for their political choices.
Yes, many of them have legitimate grievances but I’m not sure what the Democrats could have done to reach those voters. What it comes down to is Americans faced a choice in 2024: Authoritarianism or something approaching normalcy. More voters decided authoritarianism was the way to go.
Yes. I believe this has been indirectly addressed, as I too knew “smart” MAGA people.
I don’t think there’s a particularly strong negative correlation between being educated and being a MAGA cultist, but being educated – particularly in some STEM specialty – does not necessarily imply the kind of knowledge of civics and of government function and government policy that every citizen should be expected to have.
My cite for this is that no one with such basic knowledge, unless wilfully ignorant, could possibly tolerate the malevolent imbeciles that Trumpists have put into power, both directly (Trump and Vance) and indirectly (all the other incompetents). The US is now not only the laughingstock of the civilized world, but actively loathed as well. How out of touch do you have to be to not see that, or not care about it?
Trump’s laughable failure to get any NATO allies to assist in the Strait of Hormuz is clear evidence that America’s relationship with traditional allies is falling apart because of his constant belligerance, and America’s ability to project soft power through diplomacy is largely shattered.
A lot of people just don’t want to admit that voting for the Republicans is fundamentally about being morally flawed, not intellectually. The irrationality and denialism largely stem from the need to avoid admitting the consequences. As said; it’s willful ignorance.
This has always been true of the Right. Slavery came first; the racism came afterwards, to justify it.
Suppose everyone you know is voting for Trump. I can see how you could be a compassionate person while it would be impossible to see that Trump wasn’t less bad than the alternative.
Now, to support this post, I tried to find a town where everyone voted for Trump. And I have to say that while there are precincts where everyone voted in November 2024 for Trump, there seems to have been no such American town in 2024. Still, some come close.
There must be some three time Trump voters who thought Trump was the least warlike major candidate every time. There was some evidence there. At least some may now admit their mistake to themselves.
There is a paywalled Washington Post article from last last year with the headline:
She’s torn between her love for Trump and her work with migrants