In retrospect, which is better: X-Files or Buffy?

[Reno_Nevada]

@neutron star

But then I never watched Buffy. Back then, it seemed like every time I turned on the TV, there was a commercial for another damn vampire movie. Vampires, vampires, vampires. Bleh. Dull. I never understood peoples’ undying fascination with vampires.

*Buffy the Vampire Slayer * was about vampires in the same way that *Moby Dick * was about whales.

I can’t really address the OP, since I never really watched the X Files much, but as I understand things, X Files had the problem that they promised this mysterious payoff that was going to tie all kinds of loose ends together, and totally screwed up. They delivered less than they promised, and so disappointed.

Buffy, on the other hand, promised mindless, campy fun (a cheerleader! fighting vampires!) but delivered something far beyond that.

[jeffh3000]

@LABLACKEY

I Actually Find It Difficult To Compare These Two Shows. I Love Them Both But If I Had To Choose, I Would Have To Be In The Minority And Say X-files. Although Buffy And Angel Are Great Shows With Superior Writing, I Guess I’m Just A Romantic. After 9 Years Mulder And Scully Ended Up Together. Every Personal Relationship On Buffy And Angel Was Stuck Down In The End. None Of The Characters Were Rewarded With Personal Love Relationships. They May Have Gone Out Heroes, But Lonely Heroes.

As a fan of both shows, I feel that the writing was much better overall on X-files, and the series certainly kept my attention more. I enjoyed buffy for dry humor, while I liked the stories in X-files.

The last 2 seasons of X-files was out of control, and the alien arc lost its track somewhere, but I was actually suprised that I liked Robert Patrick episodes which demonstrated their ability to write with a new angle and character. I actually felt some good writing was done in some of these episodes. Where they lost me most was the resolution (or lack thereof) of the aliens/master conspiracy arc.

[SolGrundy]

@brickbacon

It’s not even close. The X-files is a far better show. Buffy, like every Star Trek show, is a cult show. Doesn’t mean it’s bad, but most people couldn’t care less about a vampire slayer. That show will never connect with a large audience the way the X-files did for the first few seasons. Like many have mentioned, the X-files sucked the last few seasons, but overall it was a great show. Buffy is still seen as a kid’s show.

So you’re saying most people couldn’t less about a vampire slayer, but that alien abductions and conspiracy theories are universally interesting? X-Files was every bit the cult show that Buffy was, if not moreso.

You could even say that Buffy had broader appeal because almost everybody has been to high school, had a first love, first rejection, been ostracized, wanted to be popular, etc. Few of us have joined the FBI, been abducted by aliens, or had cancer.

I still think that “X-Files” had the potential to be a more “important” series, because it made more adult attempts at subjects like belief and faith and even what it means to be alive. “Buffy” always took an approach that was too self-consciously flippant, or too self-indulgently navel-gazing. Neither one was perfect, but they’re both very definitely cult shows.

[shy_guy]

Since I stopped watching X-Files almost immediately after David Duchovony “left” the show, I’m tempted to say X-Files.

The last two seasons of Buffy are absolutely abhorrent to me and bring the series average wayyy down despite how much I like the first four seasons.

Buffy had better writing, but it was also almost never able to actually scare me, something the X-Files did quite frequently. Buffy did a great job of pacing out its story arcs… for three seasons. The Initiative was just a mess and seasons 5, 6, and 7 spent way too much time on their largely uninteresting overarching plots.

The X-Files standalone episodes also tend to be more interesting than the Buffy ones, if only because X-Files had a much broader library to draw from while Buffy was limited to Vampires and Demons for the most part. Of course, Buffy had better “high-concept” episodes like “Hush” and “Once More, With Feeling.” I was also more able to connect with the characters in Buffy, although that probably has a lot to do with being able to identify with them as well as the fact that they’re, initally anyway, happy bouncy teenagers with problems.

From what I’ve heard about the last seasons of the X-Files, I think I’d end up choosing Buffy of the two. But since I haven’t, I’ll go with (what I’ve seen of) X-Files.

[brickbacon]

@SolGrundy

So you’re saying most people couldn’t less about a vampire slayer, but that alien abductions and conspiracy theories are universally interesting? X-Files was every bit the cult show that Buffy was, if not moreso.

You could even say that Buffy had broader appeal because almost everybody has been to high school, had a first love, first rejection, been ostracized, wanted to be popular, etc. Few of us have joined the FBI, been abducted by aliens, or had cancer.

I still think that “X-Files” had the potential to be a more “important” series, because it made more adult attempts at subjects like belief and faith and even what it means to be alive. “Buffy” always took an approach that was too self-consciously flippant, or too self-indulgently navel-gazing. Neither one was perfect, but they’re both very definitely cult shows.

Vampires are a joke (and uninteresting) to most people whereas paranormal phenomena are interesting. Peter Jennings just did a 2 hour special on UFOs. Besides, the X-files was a very well rated show during the first few years. At its peak, the show was drawing about 20 million viewers and was regularly in the top 20. Buffy did well, but not nearly as many people watched.

Your characterizations of both shows are laughable. The X-files may have become a cult show when it jumped the shark, but a show that was one of fox’s highest rated and led to a movie which gross over $185 million worldwide cannot be a cult show.

[SolGrundy]

@brickbacon

Vampires are a joke (and uninteresting) to most people whereas paranormal phenomena are interesting. Peter Jennings just did a 2 hour special on UFOs.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impressions that vampires were to be taken completely seriously, as I’m sure, did the creators of a television show called “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.” Clearly, we don’t watch enough news.

@brickbacon

Your characterizations of both shows are laughable.

Glad to entertain. Remember to tip your waitress.

@brickbacon

The X-files may have become a cult show when it jumped the shark, but a show that was one of fox’s highest rated and led to a movie which gross over $185 million worldwide cannot be a cult show.

Clearly you’ve never been to an X-Files convention. The X-Files was always a “cult show.” It was a show for nerds. Live with it. Embrace it. “Star Trek” was a hugely popular series spawning movies that grossed millions worldwide. It is still for nerds; it is still a “cult show.” This thread is about the relative quality of each series; ratings and box office gross have nothing to do with quality.

Seriously, now. Do you really, honestly not get that “The X-Files” was making fun of people who take the whole UFO thing seriously? That that was one of the main points of the whole series?

[Otto]

@brickbacon

Vampires are a joke (and uninteresting) to most people whereas paranormal phenomena are interesting. Peter Jennings just did a 2 hour special on UFOs. Besides, the X-files was a very well rated show during the first few years. At its peak, the show was drawing about 20 million viewers and was regularly in the top 20. Buffy did well, but not nearly as many people watched.

And that of course had nothing to do with the fact that X-Files was on a much larger network than Buffy…

If the number of people watching is your benchmark for the quality of a series, then “Suddenly Susan” beats both of them hands down. Are you seriously willing to argue that “Suddenly Susan” was a better show than either X-Files or Buffy?

[Nightime]

The first 5 seasons of X-Files (before the movie came out) are the best years of any television show.

It ended up going downhill, but the first 5 seasons keep it on a level above Buffy (which I also love).

[Nightime]

Vampires are a joke (and uninteresting) to most people whereas paranormal phenomena are interesting

X-Files had an episode about vampires (one of the funniest episodes of the show).

[brickbacon]

@SolGrundy

Thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impressions that vampires were to be taken completely seriously, as I’m sure, did the creators of a television show called “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.” Clearly, we don’t watch enough news.

You can’t be that dense.

@SolGrundy

Clearly you’ve never been to an X-Files convention. The X-Files was always a “cult show.” It was a show for nerds. Live with it. Embrace it. “Star Trek” was a hugely popular series spawning movies that grossed millions worldwide. It is still for nerds; it is still a “cult show.” This thread is about the relative quality of each series; ratings and box office gross have nothing to do with quality.

Seriously, now. Do you really, honestly not get that “The X-Files” was making fun of people who take the whole UFO thing seriously? That that was one of the main points of the whole series?

You’re right, ratings and box office grosses do not have anything to do with the quality of the show, but they do preclude it from being considered a cult show. Of course some fans are rabid about it, but too many people liked the show for it to be considered a cult show. It’s kinda like the Matrix or LOTR in that way.

[brickbacon]

@Otto

And that of course had nothing to do with the fact that X-Files was on a much larger network than Buffy…

If the number of people watching is your benchmark for the quality of a series, then “Suddenly Susan” beats both of them hands down. Are you seriously willing to argue that “Suddenly Susan” was a better show than either X-Files or Buffy?

When did I say that was the benchmark for quality? I mentioned the ratings because someone tried to claim it was a cult show. My point was that Buffy is a joke to most adults. Even the premise of the show would turn most people off. Just that fact alone makes it a worse show. Plus, the X-files was a great show in its prime.

[Arwin]

@brickbacon

When did I say that was the benchmark for quality? I mentioned the ratings because someone tried to claim it was a cult show. My point was that Buffy is a joke to most adults. Even the premise of the show would turn most people off. Just that fact alone makes it a worse show. Plus, the X-files was a great show in its prime.

Over here (as in: in Europe) Buffy is definitely more successful. More importantly, it reaches a very wide audience. True, some people don’t initially take Buffy seriously, but word of mouth has helped it along. I’ve personally yet to encounter someone to whom I’ve shown the first few episodes and who did not love the show. This includes both of my parents. And I’m 30 myself. Though the luxury of course seeing anything without commercial brakes might have to do with that, too.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but I suggest you keep your opinion yours, and don’t try to enforce it onto others.

[brickbacon]

@Arwin

Over here (as in: in Europe) Buffy is definitely more successful. More importantly, it reaches a very wide audience. True, some people don’t initially take Buffy seriously, but word of mouth has helped it along. I’ve personally yet to encounter someone to whom I’ve shown the first few episodes and who did not love the show. This includes both of my parents. And I’m 30 myself. Though the luxury of course seeing anything without commercial brakes might have to do with that, too.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but I suggest you keep your opinion yours, and don’t try to enforce it onto others.

Interesting factoid. I know plenty of people who don’t like who have seen it. Also, I think I have every right to state my opinion. I you don’t like it, too bad.

[SolGrundy]

@brickbacon

You can’t be that dense.

Well thank y-- HEY!!

@brickbacon

You’re right, ratings and box office grosses do not have anything to do with the quality of the show, but they do preclude it from being considered a cult show. Of course some fans are rabid about it, but too many people liked the show for it to be considered a cult show. It’s kinda like the Matrix or LOTR in that way.

Fair enough. You said “cult show” means it’s got a smaller audience; I say “cult show” means it’s got a rabid obsessive audience.

[Snooooopy]

X-Files definitely loses points for perpetrating the shittiest series finale I can ever remember seeing.

[Fortean]

Yay! Thanks for all the replies – seems like Buffy is in the ascendant. I’m surprised that some people really liked the last two seasons, but perhaps I’ve been influenced by the vitriol over at twop.com.

I find the idea interesting that X-files had the most interesting stand-alone eps while Buffy was better on the whole. I would have said the same except that I feel that lots of the really good stuff in Buffy (the whole superwoman thing, the relationship with Angel, Willow’s character development) got blown away in the last two seasons (which I keep on mentioning, I must be obsessed or something) so that on the whole it leaves a sour taste in the mouth. It seems to be much easier to ignore things you don’t like on XF (because the continuity is shot to hell) so that I can still enjoy a season 3 ep without worrying about what happens to the characters. YMMV.

And I agree with brickbacon when he/she says that X-files was not so much a cult show insofar as it had a pretty mainstream audience, for a while. In the UK it was transferred from BBC2 to BBC1, the first time ever for a US show I think – because of the massive audience. Buffy OTOH was always shown on BBC2 at 6.30 pm or so because the channel bods saw it as a teenage show.

[Arwin]

@brickbacon

Interesting factoid. I know plenty of people who don’t like who have seen it. Also, I think I have every right to state my opinion. I you don’t like it, too bad.

You’re right. I guess I was taking issue with your aggressive stance on finding it necessary that all people understand that X-Files is absolutely far above and beyond Buffy and that all people in this thread are idiots for not seeing that Buffy is a stupid teen cult-thing that never had quite the public appreciation of the great X-Files, and … hey, did I just slip into sarcasm?

Guess it has to do with the fact that you’re right - that’s exactly what everyone thought at first. I caught onto the show on the BBC in it’s first season and stayed home for it by the second season. By the time it got to be one of those shows on our most favorite commercial channel that got aired every day at 7pm, and new Buffy, Angel and Charmed episodes dominated prime-time on Wednesdays, I already owned the first three DVD sets. I’ve had a discussion with people about the show a lot of times as a result, particularly as they often dropped in somewhere in the middle of the series. Showing them the first episode invariably seemed to cure their skepticism. It took me half a year to convince my ex-girlfriend to watch the first episode, but before I knew it she’d finished the first three and demanded that I bought the other four sets. I’ve watched the first season with many different people (it’s just 12 episodes after all) and every single time I watch it again I enjoy it. I’m sure it has partly to do with the fact that I studied English Literature like think I once read JW did. It’s a feast of recognition of both linguistic and literary scholarship and at the same time (and because of it) an accomplishment on a Joycean scale. That is, in my humble opinion of course.

First time I saw Buffy was, I think, on BBC2 on Sunday evening at around 8 - but that’s 7 in the UK, so that could be about right.

Btw, I loved the Gargoyle episode in the X-files and all episodes I liked were similar in concept to that one. And it is definitely possible that the X-Files made a bigger impact at the time, on a broader audience anyway. Just doesn’t make it better, for me.

What I was partly taking issue with was that you were counterarguing people who were giving their opinion - so far it seemed more like a poll. But you’re completely right in doing so, as this is not a poll, but a discussion thread.

In other words, I apologise for my tone.

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

I own all seasons of Angel, Buffy and X-files and have to say that I think both Angel and Buffy were far superior to the X-files.
They should have cancelled the X-files after the fifth season, or should have fired Chris Carter for somebody capable of creating AND FINISHING a story-arc.
It just kept getting denser and denser with more and more story-lines which just finished in mid-air.
It was just poor writing.
It did have some great episodes and even seasons, but not finishing a story is a big no-no in my book.
At least Josh Whedon took the time to develop a storyline and follow it through to the (bitter) end.

[AncientHumanoid]

In a simple poll, I’ll vote for X-Files. Lots of variety.

On the other hand, BtVS had SMG.

Hmm…

[Sauron]

Allow me to give a different perspective.

I was a big fan of X-Files when it debuted. Sunday nights were blocked off to watch. The first two or three seasons it was the can’t-miss show of the week.

By contrast, I openly ridiculed Buffy the Vampire Slayer when it was on. I never watched the show during its run. My wife was an avid fan, and she occasionally would try to get me to watch. I would mock her incessantly.

But something interesting happened. It became fairly obvious to me (as it did to most everyone else) that XF not only couldn’t deliver on its buildups, it adamantly refused to do so. Cliffhangers were introduced and then ignored. I became disgusted with the show, and bailed early (even before Duchovny left).

Even die-hard XF fans acknowledge the mess the show became. Sure, its stand-alone episodes were good. The problem was, the show was based on a single arc, and it never resolved that arc; in fact, it had no plans to do so.

And for Christmas one year, I got my wife the first three seasons of BtVS on DVD. She convinced me to watch the first four or five episodes of Season 1; after that, she said, she’d quit asking me. So I did. And I got hooked – the year after the show went off the air.

Yes, BtVS was chock-full of teenage angst. But the characters hooked me, and the writing was superb. What’s more, the show’s creators didn’t treat the fans like crap and insult their intelligence, as I feel XF’s did. So, to me, BtVS is by far the superior show.

Now, in my estimation, Angel far surpasses BtVS, but that’s another discussion.