In-State Public University vs. Expensive Private School?

[robby]

Thanks for the replies.

@gaffa

Why not split the difference? Get the general stuff out of the way at the cheaper school, then transfer to the more expensive one for the specialist stuff?

@Dewey_Finn

Thirty years ago, RPI had a program in which graduates of certain community colleges were guaranteed transfer admission, based on grades. So it was possible to complete two years cheaply and then come in as a junior.

One problem with transferring later is that there is no guarantee that he will get accepted again two years down the line, and even if he does, there is no guarantee that he will get the same (or any) merit award at that time. Losing the merit award would negate much of the savings of going to a cheaper school first.

@Dewey_Finn

Sorry. I didn’t see that you propose to get $20,000 in unsubsidized student loans each year. (Is he also getting the $5,000 or so in subsidized student loans?) If you’re proposing that he’s going to assume the cost of those loans, I might change my opinion. I’m not sure I’d want him to graduate with $80,000 in unsubsidized student loans that can’t even be discharged in the event of a bankruptcy. On the other hand, he could well be making $80,000 in starting salary, depending on his major and what he ends up doing. So perhaps it’s worth it? Do RPI and UConn publish the average starting salaries for the graduates of their engineering schools?

We’re not eligible for any subsidized loans. My wife and I both work, and we fall into that big divide in which we apparently make too much for any need-based aid, but not enough to afford to pay for everything out-of-pocket.

So yes, we are looking at $80K in unsubsidized loans, which we will almost certainly have to co-sign for. I’d like to be able to split the loans with him, but am unsure if we will be able to swing this after spending the $100K we were already planning on spending. And all of this assumes he graduates on time.

@KarlGrenze

…I would advice first to check the ratings of both schools according to sources such as US News, or even the engineering websites at both schools. And also talk to alumni from the schools, and tour them, if possible. That way you and your son can compare both campuses and what they have to offer in terms of academics and non-academic stuff.

We are doing all of this. For what it’s worth, according to US News, RPI is ranked #42 for national universities; UConn is #58. RPI’s engineering program is ranked #31; UConn’s is rated #73.

@KarlGrenze

…Also second requesting more financial aid. Not just from RPI, but from UConn too!

We will look into this.

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Look carefully at the RPI award package. Are there strings on the scholarship money? Private schools tend to require students to maintain certain (not always plausible) grades, keep a more-than-full-time load, stuff like that…

No particular strings, other than to maintain satisfactory academic progress. No minimum GPA.

@Motorgirl

To **Richard Parker’s **list I would add:

6. What is each school’s retention rate? How many incoming first years graduate? This can help inform you somewhat about how well the school prevents kids from falling through the cracks.

All of these stats are comparable between the two.

(Freshman retention rate at both is 93%; 4-year graduation rate is 65% at RPI and 68% at UConn; 6-year graduation rate is 85% at RPI and 83% at UConn.)

I actually didn’t realize that the 4-year graduation rates were so low until just now. This means that both schools would potentially cost even more, if he doesn’t graduate in 4 years.

By the way, I’m actually an engineer who graduated from a top-ranked private school myself, but the cost for me was a fraction of what it costs today. UConn is actually more expensive now than the private school I attended, even after correcting for inflation.

@Happy_Fun_Ball

RPI is a great school and I have several friends who received graduate degrees from there. It has a solid reputation that will open doors just by mentioning the name. I know nothing about UConn.

I have the same opinion regarding RPI, and I also know several very good engineers who went there.

As for UConn, it has a very good reputation in New England. Its reputation is even higher in Connecticut itself; it’s the flagship state university here.

[KarlGrenze]

BTW, most engineer programs are considered to be finished “on-time” if the student graduates in 5 years, as opposed to other majors were they expect (or try somehow) to finish all courses within 4 years. So that is an extra year at least, and it doesn’t matter if it is UConn or RPI.

Also see if your son qualifies for work-study, in addition to grants and loans. And if you do end up having to take loans, take only federal backed loans, do not take any private student loans!

[Dewey_Finn]

As I understand the way the loan programs work, the maximum the student can get in federal loans (subsidized or unsubsidized) is $5,500 the first year, $6,500 the second year and $7,500 beyond that. (I graduated in 1988 and had about $5,000 in loans per year through the GSL and NDSL programs. So they’ve increased the loan limits only slightly over thirty years?) So if the OP wants to get loans beyond that, he could get a federal loan through the PLUS program or would have to get private loans.

[robby]

@KarlGrenze

BTW, most engineer programs are considered to be finished “on-time” if the student graduates in 5 years, as opposed to other majors were they expect (or try somehow) to finish all courses within 4 years. So that is an extra year at least, and it doesn’t matter if it is UConn or RPI.

This is an excellent point.

@KarlGrenze

…Also see if your son qualifies for work-study, in addition to grants and loans. And if you do end up having to take loans, take only federal backed loans, do not take any private student loans!

My son is eligible for a $5,500 unsubsidized federal loan his first year, and that’s it. He’s not eligible for work-study.

As his parents, we can take out Federal PLUS loans. I don’t know much about these, but don’t see why they would be preferable to private loans. The origination fee for PLUS loans is currently 4.292%, and the interest rate is fixed at 7.21%. From what I’ve seen, I can get private loans at lower fixed rates that this.

[KarlGrenze]

@robby

This is an excellent point.

My son is eligible for a $5,500 unsubsidized federal loan his first year, and that’s it. He’s not eligible for work-study.

As his parents, we can take out Federal PLUS loans. I don’t know much about these, but don’t see why they would be preferable to private loans. The origination fee for PLUS loans is currently 4.292%, and the interest rate is fixed at 7.21%. From what I’ve seen, I can get private loans at lower fixed rates that this.

I have to check my loans, but IIRC, the PLUS loans fall in some of the repayment programs that are established (and more of them are likely to be established in the future) to help ease the burden of student loan repayment. I know I have one PLUS loan that is under the same repayment plan as my other loans.

Private student loans are not currently covered by most, if any, of these plans. Something to consider.

[buddy431]

In general, over a lifetime of earnings, often times it is worth the more selective, more expensive college.

That study is a few years old, so things might have changed.

Personally, I went the other way: went to a cheaper, less selective state school. I don’t regret my choice. Having a lot of debt when you’re young can be very daunting. Salaries tend to increase over time. Personally, I’d rather be taking more money home when I’m young and not making as much than hope to make it up when I’m older and going to be making more money anyways. You may find your utility curve different than mine.

[Voyager]

What type of engineering? It makes a difference. My company - computer engineering and CS - doesn’t really recruit from either. In my area I know a professor at UConn but I’ve never even seen a paper from RPI, but that doesn’t mean anything if your son is interested in a different area.

One of my kids went to an expensive private school and another went to a state school, not in our state. They both got great educations, but they have different personalities and would have been miserable at each others’ schools.

Has he visited the campus. That was crucial for both of them, and for me when I was making my choice.
I agree with everyone who mentioned graduate school. Half the resumes I see are from people who went to school in India or China, so their US grad school is by far more important.

In the interest of disclosure, I got accepted at RPI 45 years ago when I was applying, but it was a bottom choice for me and I never seriously intended to go.

[Mr.Nylock]

The research is pretty consistent with what is being said here. As far as I know, this is the most thorough study done regarding the specific subject in your OP.

[FeAudrey]

@Richard_Parker

A huge factor in a successful career in engineering or anything else is the personal connections you are able to make … That social capital is worth every penny …

… maybe if you are expecting to build a career on who you know rather than what you know.

One thing engineers have to do on projects is cost/benefit analysis. The new graduate who can say that he brought in the “get a degree” project on a modest budget will have a good talking point in interviews.

(Big Ten graduate here)

[foolsguinea]

If you spend 80% more for the name of the other school, you, um, how do the TVTropes lads put it–

YOU FAIL ECONOMICS FOREVER.

Seriously, don’t let them con you. UConn is presumably not some fly-by-night outfit. If they have a respectable engineering program, that’s what you want. Exploit whatever state subsidy is left in our messed-up age, and don’t feed into the demand that lets RPI gouge its suckers.

[bump]

@Richard_Parker

A huge factor in a successful career in engineering or anything else is the personal connections you are able to make–to the future leaders of your profession, to professors, to professional contacts, etc… Prestigious schools often aren’t better than cheaper ones because of the content or quality of the lectures. They are better because the students who attend there, the professors who teach there, and the firms who recruit from there are all better. That social capital is worth every penny.

That said, I don’t know whether one’s undergraduate degree is the place to make those connections as an engineer. For a lot of careers, it makes sense to get a cheap undergraduate degree, and then go somewhere fancy for graduate or professional school.

A lot of the connections and networking really depends on where you want to go work, and what schools are considered tops in that field. The best networking school may not be the best overall academic school in that field, because the best academic school may be a small, selective private program graduating 50 people a year, while the large state school’s program may be 5 steps lower in the ranking, but graduate 200 people a year, and have done so for 30 years, giving you a much larger network to draw upon.

[Richard_Parker]

@FeAudrey

… maybe if you are expecting to build a career on who you know rather than what you know.

One thing engineers have to do on projects is cost/benefit analysis. The new graduate who can say that he brought in the “get a degree” project on a modest budget will have a good talking point in interviews.

(Big Ten graduate here)

I’m not an engineer, so I admit it could be some magical realm in which the ordinary rules of human society do not apply. But I am very skeptical of the claim that there is any profession where what you know matters more than who you know (sadly). The applicant who knows someone at the company just has a huge leg up in multiple ways over the guy who knows more about X, Y, or Z relevant field or task. The gal trying to pitch the company’s services to another company where he knows the COO, or whatever, is miles ahead of the gal trying to get that business deal done on merit alone. That’s just the way of the world.

Of course, being good at your job matters too. But the whole point is that the school you go to doesn’t affect that very much. A smart student at UConn will come out pretty similarly to the same student at RPI. There might be differences, but they are relatively subtle compared to other factors.

@bump

A lot of the connections and networking really depends on where you want to go work, and what schools are considered tops in that field. The best networking school may not be the best overall academic school in that field, because the best academic school may be a small, selective private program graduating 50 people a year, while the large state school’s program may be 5 steps lower in the ranking, but graduate 200 people a year, and have done so for 30 years, giving you a much larger network to draw upon.

Truth. And location matters too. Going to UT is better than going to Harvard in terms of connections to jobs in Texas.

[Voyager]

@FeAudrey

… maybe if you are expecting to build a career on who you know rather than what you know.

One thing engineers have to do on projects is cost/benefit analysis. The new graduate who can say that he brought in the “get a degree” project on a modest budget will have a good talking point in interviews.

(Big Ten graduate here)

Not even close. I am an engineer, have hired dozens of engineers, and have interviewed hundreds of engineers.
You can’t tell what a person knows very well. You can check for depth of understanding in important areas, but the best way is to look at the school, the transcript, and the courses taken.
Someone who went to an el-cheapo college (Big 10 schools aren’t) won’t ever see an interviewer, since none will show up at campus and the resume will get screened out. For top tier companies, at least.
And if you don’t think who you know counts, you are in for a rude awakening. The best way of getting a new job is through networking. Almost all of my interns come from professors I know (so it goes the other way too) and lots of my hires also. I got my current job through networking. If I were young enough to be looking for another job, it would definitely be through networking.

Not to mention the halo effect that you get from going to a top school. People start by thinking that people who go to exclusive top schools are smart. It is a big advantage.

[MandaJo]

In terms of 4 years, you might look at how each handles AP credit, if he has passed a lot of exams. State schools often want to push kids through faster, and so accept a lot of AP credit. Private schools often accept much less, and demand higher scores.

Private schools also usually won’t let you go to JC in the summer and transfer in courses. Public schools will.

Between those two things, there is a chance he could cut a year off his degree, if he’s determined. That would save a chunk of change. If he’s thinking grad school anyways, this might be a way to go.

On the other hand, he might look into what sort of summer internships the schools can set you up with. Summer internships in STEM fields can be surprisingly lucrative. I really don’t know which would be more likely to provide such.

Finally, does UCONN have an honors program, especially an engineering-specific one? The honors programs at flagship state schools can be AMAZING and, it seems to me, are often the best deals in education today in terms of ROIs. They provide a lot of the advantages of the elite schools and the best advantages of the state schools. If they have one, can get still get in? This may or may not be possible.

[bump]

@Richard_Parker

Truth. And location matters too. Going to UT is better than going to Harvard in terms of connections to jobs in Texas.

I was actually thinking about Rice vs. UT or A&M, in that Rice may have a better regarded program, but has a network probably measured in the single-digit thousands, while both A&M and UT have networks measured in the tens of thousands in Texas alone, and all 3 schools are within about 100 miles of each other.

A school like Harvard is probably going to have a network in the hundreds at most in Texas, and centered in Houston, Dallas and Austin.

[robby]

@MandaJo

In terms of 4 years, you might look at how each handles AP credit, if he has passed a lot of exams. State schools often want to push kids through faster, and so accept a lot of AP credit. Private schools often accept much less, and demand higher scores.

They seem to be fairly comparable in how they handle AP credit, with UConn appearing to give a bit more credit than RPI for a given score.

@MandaJo

Finally, does UCONN have an honors program, especially an engineering-specific one? The honors programs at flagship state schools can be AMAZING and, it seems to me, are often the best deals in education today in terms of ROIs. They provide a lot of the advantages of the elite schools and the best advantages of the state schools. If they have one, can get still get in? This may or may not be possible.

Funny you should ask. My son was in fact admitted into UConn’s honors program. While I don’t believe it’s engineering-specific, he can do this program in conjunction with an engineering major. If he goes to UConn, he will likely do this program.

[Dewey_Finn]

Does your son have a preference between the two? Does he like to watch ice hockey or basketball (the dominant Division I sport at each school)?

[robby]

@Richard_Parker

…Truth. And location matters too. Going to UT is better than going to Harvard in terms of connections to jobs in Texas.

@bump

I was actually thinking about Rice vs. UT or A&M, in that Rice may have a better regarded program, but has a network probably measured in the single-digit thousands, while both A&M and UT have networks measured in the tens of thousands in Texas alone, and all 3 schools are within about 100 miles of each other.

Funny you should mention Rice, because that’s where I got my undergraduate engineering degree from.

While you are correct that Rice has a much smaller network than UT or A&M, having a degree from Rice conveys a significant halo effect (as noted above by Voyager) that opens a lot of doors, in my experience.

[robby]

@Dewey_Finn

Does your son have a preference between the two? Does he like to watch ice hockey or basketball (the dominant Division I sport at each school)?

He doesn’t really follow sports at all. He’s more into video games.

He liked both schools a lot when we visited them in the fall. He particularly liked the students he met at RPI. He didn’t like the fact that it was so “far away” (~150 miles). He liked the campus environment at UConn. He particularly liked the fact that it was so close to home. :dubious:

We’re planning to visit both of them again in the next few weeks. They both have a scheduled Open House for admitted students in April, but unfortunately, both are scheduled for the same day. :smack:

[Mr.Nylock]

@robby

Funny you should mention Rice, because that’s where I got my undergraduate engineering degree from.

While you are correct that Rice has a much smaller network than UT or A&M, having a degree from Rice conveys a significant halo effect (as noted above by Voyager) that opens a lot of doors, in my experience.

People keep telling me about this “halo effect” but there is no research that this ever translates into dollars that I know of. The only research to specifically target this effect has shown repeatedly that it does not translate into any significant success; if anyone has data to the contrary bring it.

Without that all you have is the opinions of people who went to “halo effect” schools saying that the halo effect has some sort of real significance. When weighing the accuracy of this analysis, the potential for bias should be obvious.