Oh, I’m aware of (and grateful for) NOW’s stance - the draft topic has had its own threads on these boards, where it’s been oft mentioned.
But I’m not sure what that has to do with this thread. We’re not talking about things that feminists, per se, are or are not against; just areas where men have legitimate grievances. Right?
Google the word “strawman”.
Do you enjoy your world of make-believe? Is there a trolley?
That’s “strawperson”, chauvinist pig. Why do you automatically presume that the strawperson must be a man?
You keep posting stuff that’s just plain wrong. Here - read up a bit:
http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv-and-men.htm
And if you can’t be arsed to follow the link, here’s a clip:
Now, penis, anus and oropharynx cancers are much less common than cervical cancer, but they still exist, and the vaccine can still prevent them. Would a testicular cancer vaccine be awesome - hells yes. But lets not get in a snit because the Guardisil prevents LESS cancers in men than it does in women - it still prevents cancers in men, yah?
So, your dentist only has male patients? :dubious:
Where’s the eye candy for the female patients?
I can think of one area that might be a legitimate male discrimination: I’ve never had a male mammography tech. I would probably feel uncomfortable with one, although that doesn’t make any logical sense because there are plenty of male OB/Gyns and they handle girly bits that are even more intimate than breasts. But I think it’s interesting that I go in for a mammo, and a woman handles my boobs. Then I have to have a follow-up appointment with my surgeon, who is a male, and he feels me up as well. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. So why doesn’t the mammography place have any male boob techs?
I’ve heard that at least 90% of women are bi or bi curious anyway. So, no problem.
Yeah, just posting a simple question like asking for examples of ways in which women suffer discrimination brings down an avalanche of anti-feminist vitriol.
Onowait…
I don’t know why not, but thought I should add that at least here in the UK mammography technician is advertised as being women only and exempt from the sexual discrimination act.
You’ve also reminded me of another anecdote; when I went for a research assistant role in an MRI lab. I didn’t get any response to my app or email but I was based at the hospital doing my master’s, and I happened to bump into one of the people from that lab. She told me that the role involved getting patients into position and calming them down and that it wasn’t really suitable for men (not in one sentence like that but that was the summary of what she was saying).
What a silly post.
No-one in here has denied that men are discriminated against in certain areas of life, such as in certain workplaces, certain areas of social and cultural expectations, etc., etc. But, like most of these types of issues, this stuff is complicated, is subject to some unsupported claims by both sides, and also tends to provoke irrational and offensive complaints by people who have more of a persecution complex than a real understanding of the issues. These latter people are the only ones i have trouble with.
I have no trouble believing that men suffer discrimination in some areas. For example, while i haven’t yet weighed in on the issue of dental hygienists, i did a bit of reading on the subject last night, and some of the literature does indeed suggest that a male entering this field might suffer some problems getting a job due to gendered expectations regarding this particular career path.
This study suggests that 7% of dentists would completely refuse to hire a man in this position, even if he were the most qualified applicant, while 23% probably wouldn’t hire a man. It also says, though, that 17% of respondent dentists actually had a male hygienist in their practices. This article isn’t a quantitative study, but instead interviewed male dental hygienists and discusses some of the barriers that they have encountered in their field. Here’s another article in which male hygienists talk about some of the issues they have faced.
It’s worth noting, though, that of the dental hygienists interviewed for these articles, those who mentioned facing difficulty finding employment were, in quite a few cases, men who graduated decades ago. For example, in the last article one guy mentioned that it took him 3 months to find a job when he graduated, but he has, according to the article, been a hygienist for 34 years, so this must have been back in the 1970s. Another one was advised by his job consultant not to go into the field, but that was 35 years ago; hardly a solid indicator of current attitudes.
The first man interviewed in the last article only graduated 7 years ago, so his experience is at least a bit more relevant to present discussions of the state of the field. He says that his temp agency told him that some dentists requested that the agency not send any black or male hygienists.
And what all the complaining about the barriers faced by male hygienists ignores is that, to the extent this problem exists, it exists in considerable measure precisely because the field of dentistry has been dominated by men for so long, and male dentists have largely bought into the gendered nature of the profession, assuming that their subordinates will be women. As one of the respondents to the last article notes, as more women become dentists, more opportunities might open up for male hygienists.
Anyway, one thing that all these articles seem to suggest is that, even while there might still be some discrimination based on gendered expectations, it is nowhere near universal, it doesn’t necessarily prevent men from getting hired, and it is eroding very quickly in the face of changing attitudes. After readings those articles, if i were thinking about this as a career path, i don’t think i would be dissuaded by the fact that i’m a guy.
Yes, I would expect this to be the case. It’s the same reason that women have traditionally been encouraged to become flight attendants while men become pilots. Or why women have been encouraged to be nurses while men became physicians, and lab technicians while men became scientists.
I promise you guys, there is no female conspiracy to keep the lower paid positions all to ourselves. This historical separation of profession along gender lines was created by men to keep the superior positions to themselves and to confine women to role of assisting them. To then turn around and use it as an example of sexism against men is thoughtless at best and insulting at worst.
I know you’re trying to be ironical and shit, but uh. Actually, that happens all the time.
The SPLC has named some Men’s Rights groups as hate groups.
Terrorism:
More here: http://manboobz.com/category/terrorism/
I agree.
Sexism is discrimination on the basis of gender.
The OP asked for examples, and people have given examples.
There’s no need to say any more. No-one is claiming men have it worse, or suffer comparable discrimination, or asking for sympathy.
The OP asked for examples that would justify a mens’ rights movement.
There have been a few in the thread, but most aren’t.
Right. But when some of the examples given on the first page include…
…then there’s nothing wrong with pointing out factual errors and sophomoric “analysis.”
Also, the OP asked not just for examples, but specifically for “examples that would justify a mens’ rights movement.” Answering this part of the question naturally involves more than simply listing examples of discrimination; it also requires an examination of how severe (in absolute and comparative terms) the listed examples are, and what sort of response they might merit.
On preview: ninja’d by miss elizabeth.
There weren’t a lot of people relating to that position though. A lot of dope threads seem to have a token extremist.
And arguably the OP is therefore too broad.
First of all because it opens up a huge discussion quite separate to the task of finding examples of discrimination.
But secondly, some people (including me) would argue it’s a leading question and no particular justification is required for such a movement. If someone wants to campaign for equality for Group_A, and against discrimination against Group_A, that’s fine with me. It doesn’t matter for me who Group_A are, and what their current status is. Equal means equal.
Sure, but isn’t part of the attraction of discussion, whether in person or on a board like this, precisely in these areas of differing opinion?
Personally, i find a thread much more interesting and compelling when it involves pursuing these places where we require explanations and justifications. If all we did were make lists, i’d let my membership lapse pretty damn quickly.
Really? So, you’d support a group campaigning for Rights For Whites, to end the discrimination against the White race? I mean, I’ve seen whites portrayed badly in commercials. And people say things like “white men can’t jump” and “whites can’t dance.” That’s racism! We need a movement to set things right!!
Equal means equal, after all.
I understand. So there is an acceptable amount of racism and sexism. You’re welcome to your opinion. I’m of the opinion that the acceptable amount is zero, but I’m funny that way.
What’s the acceptable level of women being held back in the workforce due to their gender?
What’s the acceptable level of men getting unequal custody rights despite being a better parent due to their gender?
What’s the acceptable level of white men being attacked for walking into a predominately black neighborhood?
What’s the acceptable level of black men being attacked for walking into a mostly non-black neighborhood?
Is the answer to any of these questions somehow not “zero”?
Yes, I would support the principles of such a group.
Of course, there have been groups with names like “rights for whites” in the past which have really been racist anti-minority groups. So they’d have to think carefully about the name for one thing.
But sure, if there were such a group and they could cite examples like white people going for dance auditions or basketball tryouts and not even being allowed to take part, then I would be all for them trying to change that. It doesn’t matter to me that ethnic minorities may experience more discrimination; I support equality in all cases.