Except, of course the NY Times “offered him a slot in an internship program that was being used to help the paper diversify its newsroom.”
But certainly only a crazy person living under a rock would think that someone given an internship in order to help diversify the newsroom would have been given an internship in order to help diversify the newsroom.
Can we get back to the original sillyness that spawned this hijack?
Care to support any of these with facts (finally?)
Point to where “White America” (what a hoot) keeps a “collective permanent record.” and that “all” black people are judged by it and asked to be responsible for it?
I didn’t say anything of the sort. However, whites don’t tend to compare blacks to asians who lack money and education.
Whites use educated asians as a way to denigrate blacks.
It doesn’t have to be all asians. The fact is, relatively recently America has seen an influx of asians with money and education, and whites have taken advantage of this by portraying asians as a “model minority” and asking why blacks aren’t more like them. As if they are in anywhere near the same circumstances.
Moreover, even the earlier, predominantly poor asian immigrants had something blacks did not: a solid culture and history. That allowed them to pool their resources. Blacks on the other hand had their culture and history effectively erased by slavery. It is ridiculous to compare them unfavorably to asians.
Keep in mind, I’m talking about whites using asians against blacks. Asians are also a victim in the whole process.
If only that were true. The fact is that the racism’s effects are still extremely powerful today, even if people truly believe in equality.
As I mentioned earlier, it would be hard to overestimate the effect of whites moving out of and refusing to move to neighborhoods because of blacks moving there.
Historically, property values have plummeted as a neighborhood becomes a “black neighborhood.” There is something very sad about the idea of a proud black family buying a home, only to see it become nearly worthless when whites refuse to live in the area. Yet that is what happened, and it caused enormous damage which still resonates today. And even now, can you honestly tell me it doesn’t still happen?
Yes. Get over yourself.
Irony so thick you can cut it with a knife.
“White people” don’t do that, racists do.
Not necessarily. I think a lot of people really don’t see the problem in comparing asians to blacks like that. We’re not talking about KKK here, these are normal people, and probably nice.
"“Research has shown that blacks and Hispanics have limited access to the most favorable neighborhoods and housing,” noted Krivo. “Whites’ prejudice against living near minorities reduces the demand and hence the value and appreciation of homes owned by blacks and Hispanics.”
But the point is, not all white people do it.
And even if a white person draws a comparison it’s not, necessarily, in an effort to denigrate blacks.
Those who do use it as a putdown are acting in a racist manner.
True. But the effect is still to denegrate blacks and to minimize the very real hurdles they face, even if that is not the intent.
Also, it gives a false impression that the problem is solved, leading us to stop looking for ways to help.
That study has nothing to do with your claim that I am disputing, to wit, white folks universially scream “OH MY GOD! NIGGERS!! SOMEBODY THINK OF OUR PROPERTY VALUES!” and then move when black families move to their neighborhoods. Over the last 20 years I’ve lived everyhere from working class neighborhoods to upper middle class ones with some houses in the almost $1,000,000 price range. Black families have moved into all of them during my period of residence, and never once have I heard a sentiment even close to what you are saying is commonplace. I suspect you’re seeing boogeymen that don’t exist anymore as a way of reinforcing your feelings of persecution.
I don’t agree.
I think it’s a realization that there are hurdles, and a question as to why the approach of dealing with them isn’t similar. More than one black activist (to tie this back to the OP) has pointed out that 'black culture (whatever that is) doesn’t respect academics highly enough. Now I don’t know if that’s true, but there are sure a bunch of black people who’ve made that point.
I’m sure the problem of racism and disadvantage isn’t solved, but it’s also not necessarily wrong or racist to look at strategies one group uses which work.
Because they’re two entirely different groups with no similarities whatsoever (oh wait, both are not white, so I guess that’s close enough :rolleyes:)! At best, someone who makes that comparison is an ignoramus who should be given one chance to be educated about the fallacy in making it, and then ignored if he still doesn’t get it, and at worst a racist who is just looking for a cheap way to rationalize his predudice.
First of all, I don’t feel persecuted at all because I’m a white male.
Second of all, you are wildly exaggerating what I said. It certainly doesn’t happen as much as before, and I made a point of saying that those involved are probably nice people and not the monsters you describe, but the lingering effects are still overwhelming.
It becomes a problem because I would estimate that most people don’t realize why the comparison is wrong.
Most people don’t recognize the problem in comparing relatively recent immigrants with money and education to blacks.
They don’t see the problem in comparing people who have a solid culture and history which allows them to pool their resources with people who had their culture, families, and history erased.
“The researchers emphasize that residential segregation and other forms of discrimination in housing and mortgage markets are particularly important because home equity is the largest component of wealth for most households.”
I meant to add this to the last post to give more detail of why the housing/property values has been so destructive to blacks.
Riiiiight…
So they’re not both minorities who’ve had to overcome prejudices and gain social power?
You can’t look at what effect having a culture which values education might have?
We can’t ever compare things, we’ve got to look at everything in a vacuum?
Ah, I see, the “Either you agree with me or you’re stoooopit!” defense.
OK, one last addition and I’m out of here.
The reason the damage is sustained even though the prejudice is greatly decreased is that it is no longer necessary to be overtly prejudiced to maintain segregation.
The segregation which was created by past overt discrimination is already in effect.
It’s almost enough to make one wonder if there is something wrong with reaping the rewards of that past overt discrimination, or whether something ought to be done to mitigate the lingering harm it still causes.
I see, so “both are non white” is enough of a similarity for you.
Ok, now do you honestly think there could be any reaction to that other than resentment over your implication that blacks don’t value education?
I don’t know where that came from…
“In opposition to the dominant culture” is a definition which ethnogrophers the world over find to be meaningful. Sorry that you don’t.
Have you missed then number of academics and/or celebrities from the black community who themselves say that blacks don’t value education enough? Take the issue up with them, not me. Like, say, Cosby’s point as quoted in the OP.
Or, points like this guy’s
“There is also evidence that many Black males view sports or music as more promising routes to upward mobility than academic pursuit”
Now, this may very well be false. But I would question why members of the black community keep saying it. Self-loathing?
Um… read what you just said maybe? What do you think you just implied about anybody who holds a contrary position to yours? (Hint, it involves the word ignoramus.)
[Eric ‘Otter’ Stratton] Gee, you’re dumb [/Eric ‘Otter’ Stratton]
Or how about this cite, from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education?
Notice, espeically, the last few paragraphs on the first page and first few on the second. Containing quotes like this:
I’m not the one who’s making up this research. If you want to find fault with their data or methodology be my guest, but pretending that I’m the one saying this, and not black scholars, is false.
Or this, from the Journal of Negro Education (Started by Howard Univ)