Edit: I’m going to make a new thread.
Let’s explore this. If a woman finds herself with an unwanted pregnancy and is presented with a choice of an invasive, unwanted, and wholly medically unnecessary medical procedure or carrying the unwanted fetus to term, wouldn’t you consider that unfair, inhumane, and needlessly abusive? Sure, she can say “no” to the procedure if she’s willing to accept a different kind of unwanted horror. It is not like there are no consequences to her saying “no”. What kind of choice is that, and why would anyone be okay with it? “If you don’t let us prod and probe your vagina you will be forced to gestate a fetus you don’t want whether you like it or not.” Some choice.
Consent under coercion isn’t consent at all. You might as well claim that it isn’t rape if the rapist makes the victim say “yes” at gunpoint.
Bottom Line: If God dropped me at the Values Voters summit and informed me that he was gonna nuke the place if I failed to find 50 – make it 40, how about 30, can I get a 20, OK we’ll settle on 10 as the absolute rock-bottom – participants who did not share the sin of Sodom, I would waste no time searching that could instead be used to increase my distance from Ground Zero by so much as a millimeter.
Thanks for that. I will discontinue posting on this tangent in this thread, and apologize to the other posters here, and mods, for my contribution to it.
Somebody needs to educate me. “Vaginal ultrasounds”? Since when? Who’s advocating those and why would they when conventional ultrasounds presumably show the same thing with a little belly jelly and a handheld grocery store scanner? Why does a woman seeking an abortion even need one if she’s obviously not exceedingly pregnant? To shame her into not getting one because “Look here, miss! There’s the beating heart! You’re killing a living human!”
Furthermore, what abortion doctors would even agree to such a procedure? Bad for business.
I’ve really missed the boat here.
Onomatopoeia, I’m sure it was unintentional, but you have misquoted my recent post by inserting into it something I didn’t say:
That last bolded sentence is part of your response, not my quote.
If I were as given to illogical rhetoric as some people around here, I might employ some pretty scathing analogies about the practice of sticking unwanted content into my quoted remarks against my will and without my consent. :dubious:
You also evidently don’t know or care what the meaning of “coercion” is.
No, what we’re saying is that because a woman knowingly consents to this legal medical procedure, it is not rape.
Fearing for your life has nothing to do with it. In the past I’ve knowingly consented to legal medical procedures that did make me fear for my life, and they weren’t rape either.
You know, if you weren’t so busy being sickened and outraged, you might have been alert enough to notice that what the woman in that article is charging the hospital with is “medical battery”, not rape. Now, why do you think that is? Hint: it’s because she wasn’t raped.
If I go to the dentist for urgently needed healthcare services, and he tells me that he cannot carry out the requested procedure without performing a legally mandated diagnostic probe of my tongue, palate and pharynx, and I object to that procedure because I consider it unnecessary and invasive but I consent to it anyway, has my dentist orally raped me?
Like I said, I am adamantly opposed to unnecessary and invasive gynecological procedures of any kind, but saying that any consensual medical procedure is the same as actual rape is just third-degree-burn stupid.
Yeah, I screwed something up with that post and the quote tags. Sorry about that.
I won’t respond to comments on the rape tangent in this thread, but I am willing to in the new thread opened by Karrius if you want.
The Republicans/anti-abortionists; and they support it in order to traumatize the woman as much as possible. It’s been in the news for some years.
Oh look, somebody else who doesn’t understand the meaning of “coercion”. A lot of them around tonight, apparently.
A patient who can at any time avoid an unwanted medical procedure by withdrawing her consent to it and walking out of the doctor’s office is not in a comparable situation to a rape victim being held at gunpoint.
As I said, making such stupid and exaggerated comparisons unjustifiably trivializes the trauma of actual rape.
Any who practice in a state where the law requires it.
I know you cheated on your husband. Consent to have sex with me right now or I will tell him. You can withdraw your consent at any time and walk out of my bedroom. But if you do I will ruin your marriage, which you value a great deal. Hey, stop crying. You consented, didn’t you?
[Moderating]
I’m going to call this post as the end of the ultrasound rape hijack in this thread. Anyone wanting to respond to something posted on the subject in this thread, should do so in the thread Karrius started.
[/Moderating]
EDIT: Ultrasound has been silenced 
:rolleyes: Yes, threatening somebody with a deliberate malicious intrusion into their private family life if they will not cooperate with your sexual demands is fundamentally NO DIFFERENT from a doctor not being legally allowed to perform an elective medical procedure unless the patient consents to an additional medical procedure.
You simply can have no idea how insanely stupid you sound when you try to force that kind of analogy onto a situation that just won’t support it.
Oops, sorry Miller, hadn’t seen that when I composed my last response.
Der Trihs, you’ve taken a lot of hits in this thread. Just wanted to say that you made a damn good point worthy of reflection on this page. For me at least.
There’s this thing called the Base. Millions of Conservative voters. They consider themselves the bulwark against the Left and all its manifestations - public schools, the media, political correctness, Press 1 for English, and that ubiquitous woman with six kids and an Escalade who uses her EBT card for cigarettes and hair extensions. However it was done, this group has claimed the party and the platform, and would prefer that everyone else in it (RINOs, the Establishment) step aside or be removed. They have simply too much money and too much influence to be barred from anything. And there it stands.
I’ll let it slide this time, but do it again, and I’m taking a pinky.