I’m sorry; you’ll have to explain what these mean, then. (bolding, of course, mine)
From what I have been reading, it looks like you are basically saying that the reporter only got what he deserved, in no small part due to the fact that he asked for said forms after dark.
And, appearently, I am not the only one asking you about the gist of your posts to the subject.
No, I’m saying the reporter got what he was specifically looking for: annoyed cops. Asking for forms at 8 pm was the means to do so. When you go looking something, you tend to do so at a time that would be beneficial to get it, right? I believe these guys are biased, went looking for cops for the specific purpose of getting them worked up, and did so at a time that they considered benefical for doing so.
What the bloody blue fuck? The guy was never belligerent, was in fact totally respectful and polite, and made a simple request. There is no way that his behaviour should ever have been expected to elicit such adversarial and sometimes downright threatening responses. What does time of day have to do with anything?
This is exactly why it’s a good idea to have policies in place that allow the public to report abuses to IAB without the possibility of uniforms running interference.
A disinterested-as-possible body should be determining if complaints are valid or not, because people are often under the impression (sometimes correctly) that there is an institutional attitude that whatever the police do is perfectly fine, even when it’s manifestly not.
Where does this impression come from? Even in cities with good police forces, people have bad experiences, and unfortunately, those experiences tend to inform their attitudes about police much more than the bulk of the times you observe police behaving as their supposed to.
A couple of years ago, I posted about a trio of cops who loudly and publicly complained about a very public investigation into some other cops who were in the habit of picking people up off the street, taking them to a remote part of Stanley Park, and kicking the crap out of them. They made it perfectly clear that they considered it an outrage that this behaviour was being looked into at all – not, mind that they didn’t think it happened – that they took it for granted that it happened and didn’t see anything wrong with it.
For years, it was common knowledge that the VPD could (legally) pick you up at their discretion and put you wherever they wanted to, and that sometimes Bad Things happened when they did.
For the most part, this was tolerated, because the people who were targeted for this treatment didn’t have much in the way of political clout – and they were, honestly, often people that Nice People didn’t want in their neighborhoods. Think someone might be a drug dealer or a thief? Isn’t it nice that the police are authorized to simply take them somewhere else, with no paperwork?
Unfortunately, in practice, this power was frequently abused. As I related in the linked thread, I myself have had an evening out spoiled. Me and a friend had a few blocks to walk from the Skytrain to the theatre, but we were spotted by some cops who came on heavy to us, searched us, ran our IDs, and told us that we were interfering with them. (The first we even knew that they were they was when they grabbed us and threw us up against a wall.) Eventually, they called a paddy-wagon and had us delivered to another part of town. So no movie that night. They were either just bored or didn’t like our looks.
Anyway, people should be able to complain about things like that without worrying that they’re going to be singled out for more harrassment. You think people are going to feel comfortable walking up to another cop and saying, “Look, my name is Bob Smith, I live at 3358 E19th and work at Tower Records, and I want to drop the dime on Officer Barbrady. Just after I kick this wasp’s nest. Ow!”
Answering questions with questions is not polite. It is rude.
Answered above.
This I agree with.
As do scaremongering news reports aired during sweeps, which I think is what happened in Miami.
So, all cops on at 8pm are automatically annoyed cops?
What is wrong with asking for a complaint form at 8pm?
Why would asking for a complaint form at 8pm get cops worked up? I bet pounds to pesos that the cops who got worked up at 8pm would get just as much worked up at 8am. The time has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that some of the cops in this video acted innapropriately.
Again, I just want to point out, that even though all of the precincts shown did not have a form, it is only the cops in question who couldn’t answer a simple question that posed a problem. If they had just answered the question with, “I’m sorry, we don’t have a form. If you would rather give a written statement, here’s the address you send it to.” there would be no problem. I point again the the cops who just said, “sorry, no form.” The reporter/decoy just walked away. End of story.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7161034&postcount=76
At least we finally agree on something.
Sorta.
Not at all, but ones that are could be easier to find.
It’s not just the complaint form; it’s the complaint form, being rude, and everything else.
If they’re even there.
It could have everything to do with them acting inapropriately. We don’t know what those neighborhoods are like. 8pm could be when all the weirdos come out and hang around the station. We just don’t know.
And if the “tester” could give straight awnsers to simple questions, that wouldn’t have posed a problem, either. Straight answers wouldn’t have made for a good story though, certainly not one for sweeps.
Dude, go back to your own post (the one I link to above) and reread your own account of the discussion.
The first line outta the cop’s mouth wasn’t answering the kid’s question. It redirected it and asserted his immediate (and potentially final) authority over the process. You are complaining that the kid couldn’t answer a straight question, but you ignore the fact that the cop couldn’t either. How many more friggin’ times do I have to point out the fact that the cops who answered the question ended the scenario? You keep saying the kid was at fault because the he couldn’t give straight answers when your own transcript shows the cop never answered the kid’s questions.
You have cause and effect backwards. The video wasn’t (made to be) controversial because sweeps week was upon the stations. The station chose to show it during sweeps week because it was controversial. The stations had nothing to do with the video’s creation - it was made by a completely separate entity.
In short, at this point, I have no reason to think that you will actually start to make sense, but I am tired of the complete bullshit you are spreading. Your own transcript refutes what you are trying to say. I have no idea why you are defending the cops to the level that you are. But you are defending people who intimidated someone who (for all intent purposes) was trying to file a complaint against an officer.
Yeah, I know. Did he not answer the question because he’s on a power trip or because he was trying to determine kid isn’t a loon? As I said, we don’t know.
That entity is an organization that holds an anti-cop bias, and were hired by the station to shoot the video. Certainly sounds to me like it was deliberatly controversial.
“Weirdo” not “loon”. I’ve had Cynthia McKinney on my mind today.
I must say, having police officers like that on the force is a real loon. A real loon.
Please note: nowhere in this thread have I said the cops weren’t acting inappropriately. I’m just saying that I think they were provoked.
Also note that I’m not singling out Ludovic, whose post just happens to be right above mine.
In that case, you will have to forgive the force of my earlier post. From where I am sitting, it sounded like you were defending the actions in question.
OTOH, I cannot agree with the idea that the cops were provoked. The timing of the filming might have been done to for all sorts of reasons, but it is immaterial. In the two cases I can remember most clearly (your transcripted one and the one where the police threatened the crew with tickets), the police were the ones responsible for raising the stakes of the encounter.
In the cases where the kid was simply told that a complaint form didn’t exist, he left. In the cases where his questions was not directly answered, the officers in question decided they needed to know more before they could answer his question. I do not see “provocation” in the kid’s behavior.
S’okay. I’m used to giving the wrong impression.
Yeah, and the behavior of the “testers” did nothing but raise the stakes even further. That’s the sticking point for me.
What specific behaviors can you point to by the testers that were provocative.
You’ve identified the following so far:
-Asking at 8:00 PM
-Answering a question with a question
I would posit that if a law enforcement officer is too delicate of consitution to deal in a professional and clear-headed manner with these horrific impositions, they need to find another job post haste.
Oh, and just to clarify my rudeness here, that first sentence was supposed to have a question mark at the end.
I’m a prick. I admit it.
I wanted to post an update to this thread with news I read today. We all remember the OP, right? Well here is what happened to the guy that did the report:
http://cbs4.com/local/local_story_086232143.html
Nice, huh? So what do we think of the FL police now?
Nothing specific, just the general pattern. If someone did that here they’d likely be labelled a troll.
Didn’t we agree to disagree?
You’re a page late.
Well, if having to deal with a request for a form is an equivalent to trolling that upsets the pwecious 'wittle officers then I’d say those officers are fucking pansies that need a new line of work.
By saying that it’s nothing specific, you’re essentially conceeding the point.
Ours is a society based upon laws and rules, not the general feelings of officers about when it’s appropriate to unholster their weapons.
And do you have any intention of defending the actions of the PBA in putting up a BOLA against the reporter?
For the last time: it’s not just dealing with the request for a form but the entire pattern of behavior. When a cop asks you a question, they want to hear “Yes, sir/ma’am” or “No sir, ma’am”. They do not want to hear “Who decides that?” and certainly not “Why?” Or, as I said way back in post #51:
Asuuming the report is correct, no.