SD:
I was wondering where you’d slithered off to…I thought they may have taken you in for observation. In any event, I’m glad you got your meds levelled out 
:
Are you as unobservant as you are stupid? I post every day (with one exception: I was busy Thursday).
No matter where you go, there you are.
Sheesh! Don’t be so touchy. Nobody told me it was my week to watch you.
:
I’m not touchy. I was just taking advantage of an opportunity to call you “stupid.”
To be perfectly honest, I actually don’t think you’re stupid. Arrogant, self-righteous, uptight and a bit of a pratt, but I think you’d be an interesting guy if you ever managed to remove the stick from your ass.
God, no, please, don’t encourage him!
{sigh}
We’re all in for it now…
Esprix, who in his own way agrees with you anyway… 
Quite interesting how so many people know so much about incest.
Too long ago for most of you to have been more than an idle thought in your momma’s mind, incest was not all that uncommon in some very rural communities in the US. Mainly because the population was not only so small but scattered. I recall reading articles years ago about brother/sister sex play among some mountain communities that was generally known about.
Being a lover of pornography for years, I also recall reading through swinger magazines – I’m nota swinger, but was interested in the pictures – and would come across some ads wanting to meet others who liked and practiced incest. I have met brother and sister ‘couples’ where I strongly suspected that they had sex together for recreation and not to have kids. (Some of the ‘sisters’ were so cute that I could somewhat understand it.)
I eavesdropped on a discussion that dealt with incest, one night in a bar. It was one of those quiet bars where you go for a couple of drinks, good conversation and no loud music, smoke cigars and very rarely does anyone get plastered. There was a small group of men and women drinking wine, knocking back imported beers and munching on peanuts behind me and they had this professional look about them. You know the look – the carefully styled hair, conservative yet bold business clothing, minimal but very expensive personal jewelry and conversation right out of a thesaurus.
I found it interesting because this was a couple of years after the belated announcement of the AIDS plague. Their general opinion was that it probably was safer for incest between siblings for recreational sex to keep diseases down. Parent to child sex was not considered acceptable at all at any age because of the powerful influence parents have in children’s’ lives and the great potential of subsequent psychological problems and legal ones.
This was prior to the Great Child Abuse Panic initiated years ago by that day care center where two lying kids accused the owners and workers of practicing Satanism and holding sacrifices and fondling or having sex with the kids.* (It all turned out to be BS. The kids were prompted by their grandmother who was trying to get custody of them. By the time the truth got out, the Day Care owners were ruined, some were in jail and the national panic had already spread.)* It was mentioned that many children in with siblings routinely experimented sexually with each other as they became aware of their sexuality and recreational sex between first cousins was not all that uncommon. (Back then, kids 10 and 11, just feeling the first real sexual drives, played ‘doctor,’ did some touchy-feely, examined each others equipment and were not whisked off to HRS, psychiatrists, the cops or placed in institutions.)
I found their conversation, what I could clearly hear of it, interesting. Incest, as a rule, is forbidden because of the major genetic problems which can crop up. (Remember the royalty inbreeding which produced bleeders and idiots?)
Currently, there is a ‘tribe’ in the Middle East where they, for some reason, tend to marry within the tribe and have done so for ages until now everyone is related. Several forms of genetic problems have cropped up, including blindness. (It was on the Learning Channel and mainly concerning the family with several genetically blind sons who swam with and got along unusually well with Dolphins.)
I think it was Robert Heinlein, the Sci-fi writer, who wrote ‘Methuzla’s Children’ (dealing with a section of humans who lived for centuries) who later, in his book ‘Time Enough For Love’ breached the subject of incest where he had family members having recreational sex. He continued that line along for a couple of his other books. (Interestingly enough, his female characters were always very powerful, sexually outgoing and very intelligent as well as beautiful in description.) His book ‘The Cat Who Walked Through Walls’ dealt heavily with it, but always based it on ** recreational** sex because of the genetic problems which could crop up.
Personally, if siblings wish to boff each other and not produce kids, I couldn’t care less. Problems arose in Mountain communities decades ago when such unions produced kids (re: Deliverance) which gave rise to the inbred jokes. I no longer know about the blood RH factors, which used to be the main reason why couples had to get blood tests prior to marriage – which are no longer required. Remember the ‘high forehead’ jokes? Those came from the common inbreeding noted in the early 1900s.
TODAY, the subject is almost taboo because anyone agreeing with sibling sex below the age of 18 can be accused of agreeing with child molestation and kids who experiment with each other in such a way can be arrested, psychoanalyzed, placed in foster homes and screwed up in general by the system.
Heck, I have male friends who confided with me years ago that when they were like 13 or 14 their first exploratory sexual experience – in one way or another – was with an older or slightly younger sister or cousin. Psychiatrists have long known that most males have had a sexual encounter – usually touchy feely or seeing who can ‘shoot’ – with a male sibling or friend of similar age. (Now days they call it a ‘homosexual experience,’ though I disagree with that because young boys, when they reach the age where their ‘stiffy’ does something else besides just stand up, urgently seek out almost anything to ‘screw’ or experiment with. (Jokes about watermelons, raw liver, plastic bags, and even holes in the ground.)
So, in my opinion, some incest is inevitable and as far as I’m concerned, recreational sex in such a way is not for me to yell about and have the law get involved. It’s between two consenting adults. As for kids, hell, it’s been going on for ages among themselves in one form or another. Parent to child, however, does give me the willies below the age of 18 and I prefer not to consider it above that age either.
Sentinel: A very interesting, thoughtful and thought-provoking post.
Esprix: I know what you mean. The guy’s not a pure troll. He can write in complete sentences, often uses actual paragraph structure and has a definite point of view. If his posts weren’t consistently “You disagree with me therefore you must be a communist or an idiot,” I think the guy would be fun to debate.
Commie.
I just wanted to clarify some points:
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Recessive does not equal defective. We all exhibit many reccesive traits, and in many cases the recessive gene is overwhelmingly more common. My SO’s family suffers from a genetic form of rickets and the gene for the disorder is dominiant–there are no “carriers”.
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Although it is more likely that a brother/sister pair would carry the genes for the same genetic disorder, that increased likelyhood is not vast, provided that a) no gentic disorder is known to exisit in the family (if a recessive gene is present, chances are that someone has gotten a double whammy in the last three or four generations) and b) this is the initial pairing–with each generation of inbreeding the likelyhood of an unknown genetic mutation arising grows. (Not that incest causes mutations, obviously. But the cance or a rr pairing grows) In fact, in such cases I doubt the risk is any higher that that of any random pairings.
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When people point thier fingers at hemophilia in the royal families of Europe, it is important to remember that that was all that happened (and that Hapsburg nose, which is not quite a disorder) after centuries of inbreeding. Dozens of seperate Eygptian dynasties were heavily inbred–most recently, Cleopatra’s family tree was a trunk with one branch–without serious problems. It is true that small, isolated populations often develop very high rates of some specific disorder, but generally this is when you have a starting population of 20-30 individuals, who then inbreed for centuries. This is a very extreme situation.
I really do not think that incest can be declared immoral or unethical because of heath concerns. I, myself, an perfectly willing to condemn it on social grounds–it concentrates wealth to much in one family, discourages people from interacting with the larger society because they needn’t leave the family for anything, creates social stagnation, etc. This is one of the cases where trying to build an ethic strictly on the harm principle does not work.
Oh yeah–Coldfire, you have never made your position clear on incestous sex that does not carry the risk of pregnancy–oral or homosexual. How do you feel about these?
How I FEEL about them is easy: I feel that every incestuous relationship is plain wrong.
But I think I’ve done enough to explain my point of view with underlying ethics… not gonna go there anymore. This whole thing was started by AvenueB-Dude when I corrected him for behaving like an ass in a MPSIMS thread - he started comparing drug use to incest -ethically and morally- to which I suggested he should open a pit thread. Which he did.
I’m sure AvenueB-Dude is still convinced he is “right”. But as far as the rest of us go, I think we’ve seen enough evidence by now to recognize him for the narrow-minded idiot he truely is. You can’t blame a person for lack of intelligence, but you sure as hell can blame them for not acknowledging said lack.
I would also like to thank all the other posters in this thread that have tried to make (and made!) valuable contributions. We can agree to disagree, if we at least explain our POV rationally and calmly.
I hope you learned something out of all this, AvenueB. But somehow, I doubt it.
Defect borg:
“Refutile is sistance. Your ass will be simulated”.
WallyM7 on Coldfire:
"Yeah, he knows a little about everything because they have a good prison library."