i wanted to look up a resource to find out if the 16th amendment was actually ratified…apparently it has nothing to do with Ohio, but KENTUCKY…Kentucky’s senate allegedly signed it in…but it was voted against 20 to 9…so i’ve been told…i thought i’d look a little more and get more information…well it turns out i came across a rather lucrative proposition that many of you in this debate might be interested in…go to the webpage at the bottom of this message to make an easy $10,000…so you think…if this page carries any credibility, and cash, then i won’t owe taxes from here on out…what do you think?
Welcome to the SDMB, and thank you for posting your comment.
Please include a link to Cecil’s column if it’s on the straight dope web site. To include a link, it can be as simple as including the web page location in your post (make sure there is a space before and after the text of the URL).
Cecil’s column can be found on-line at this link:
Is U.S. income tax invalid because Ohio wasn’t legally a state when the 16th amendment was ratified? (18-Nov-1996)
moderator, «Comments on Cecil’s Columns»
I glanced through the information at the link you presented. If you are asking what I think, I think that you would save time and money by submitting to “the communist hand in the shadows” as the web page terms it, and paying your federal, state, and local income taxes.
well i’d have to say that “glancing” really made your reply uneducated, and thus sound very stupid…how would i savbe money by paying taxes over not paying them…that sounds pretty couterintuitive…and if you read a bit more carefully, it would state that the FEDERAL income taxes are the ones that are an issue…not the state and local ones…and the time i would spend fighting injustice would not only establish a principle to be used by others, but be less than the time i would spend filling out tax forms and dealing with an accountant…
After quickly “glancing” at this site I determined that it has no validity. In fact, I can off the top of my head prove their most important point wrong.
[q]**
FACT #28: Internal Revenue Code Section 6654(e)(2)© (below) states: …no tax liability …if, …the individual was a citizen or resident of the United States throughout the preceding taxable year. IRS contends the success of the SELF-ASSESSMENT system depends on VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE – EVIDENTLY SO!
Internal Revenue Code Sec. 6654. FAILURE BY INDIVIDUALS TO PAY ESTIMATED INCOME TAX.
(e) Exceptions. –
(1) Where tax is small amount. – No addition to tax shall be imposed under subsections (a) for any taxable year if the tax shown on the return for such taxable year (or, if no return is filed, the tax), reduced by the credit allowable under section 31, is less than $500.
(2) Where no tax liability for preceding taxable year. – No addition to tax shall be imposed under subsection (a) for any taxable year if –
(A) the preceding taxable year was a taxable year of 12 months,
(B) the individual did not have any liability for tax for the preceding taxable year, and
© the individual was a citizen or resident of the United States throughout the preceding taxable year.
[/q]**
The tax code quoted they quoted to prove that citizens or residents of the United States are not subject to paying income tax doesn’t even refer to income tax. It refers to penalties assessed if you do not pay estimated taxes. It is out of date as the small amount of taxes is now $1000 not $500.
The key phrase is “no addition to tax”. This means no penalties in addition to the tax you owe if you owe less then $1,000 or owed no taxes last year and are a US citizen.
Please, try to collect your $10,000. I won’t even ask for a cut. (Although I would love to hear if you get it.)
octo1212, I have revised my opinion after reading your last post. Of course I was mistaken! I now urge you to follow the legal opinion of the author of the web page you mentioned, and immediately cease paying any/all US federal taxes. It might save time if you write to your local IRS office and inform them of your decision, and the legal basis thereof, so that they don’t waste money sending you reminder notices. 
Mr. Winkelried, (may I call you Arnold?) thank you for making me laugh.
does this discredit the entire site?..is the main point i am concerned about, having to pay federal income taxes, still false?..this fact, i think, has only to do with penalties if you were to file for taxes and have subsequently filled out a W-4 form and submitted to the liabilities of your taxes and the IRS…however, if you don’t even submit to the IRS and a W-4 form, then this fact doesn’t even apply…correct?..i appreciate your input and would appreciate more…
thanks
I don’t think that you even understand what you are reading. Estimated taxes have nothing to do with a W-4. Estimated taxes are what people who owe more then then their withholdings or people who have no withholdings pay.
He concludes that United States citizens don’t have to pay income taxes based on a code section which refers to paying penalties, not taxes. His “fact” #28 was completely false. Collect your $10,000 from him if you can.
I don’t plan on researching the rest of his “facts”. If he made one up I am sure that some of the others are false too.
And it doesn’t even matter if his “facts” are true. You can’t get out of paying income taxes by some crazy flow of “facts” like that. You can’t get out of paying income taxes at all. You can stop for awhile, but eventually it will get you in a lot of trouble.
octo you said
Just a word of advice: Don’t call people ignorant in a thread unless it is The BBQ Pit. And especially not a MOD.
Then you said
Er, uh, it would go something like this…
l. You don’t pay your taxes
2. The IRS finallly catches up with you
3. You now owe the original sum plus penalties and interest
Does it still sound counterintuitive?
samclem, I think your advice is sound. The policy of our message board is that no personal insults are allowed in any forum except The BBQ Pit, and even The BBQ Pit has limits as to what it will allow. The “no personal insults” rule is strictly enforced in this forum.
However, just to explain one of my personal guidelines:
I don’t consider octo1212’s comment to qualify as a personal insult. It is on the very edge of the line I allow: e.g. you can say ?your argument is stupid?, but not ?you are stupid.?
moderator, «Comments on Cecil’s Columns»
Zumba The Cat (may I call you Zumba?), it was my pleasure. Let me add that I appreciate you taking the time to read the site and present a well-reasoned objection to one of the points. However, I would still be interested to hear the results if young freedom fighter octo1212 were to follow the advice offered by the author of the website. octo1212, please keep us updated!