Incompetence in the public school system. (long)

The BBQ Pit
1

A little bit of background information: I’m a high-school Sophomore living in the Midwest. Earlier in the year I went through the application process for a half-day program called the School of Science and Math. (SSM).

My part in the process was this - I filled out an application (current classes, educational history, ACT scores, etc), passed out evaluation forms to my teachers, and collected and returned them to the counselor with the application.

Basically, I did all of the work.

The school counselor (We’ll call him Mr. Gray) was responsible for very little - he got the standard paperwork together (my transcript, and a few other things on a list given to him by the SSM.) and sent the packet in before the deadline. Apparently, this was too fucking much to ask.

Mr. Gray is possibly the most disorganized person I have ever met, but I had no choice but to rely on him to send in the required stuff.

I found out today that my application was almost thrown out because (surprise, surprise!) Mr. Gray had neglected to attach what was required. Including my transcript! My transcript is possibly the most common-sensical, mundanely standard piece of information possible that is needed when dealing with another school. How the hell could he have missed this??? The only reason I wasn’t automatically disqualified is because my Algebra 2 teacher was on the selection committee, and she persuaded them to wait until she got the papers together.

I cannot even begin to describe how furious this makes me. I go to a tiny school, of 300 students in grades 7-12. Mr. Gray was not too busy to do what he was supposed to, and I wasn’t asking him for anything even remotely outside of his job description. Yet he didn’t come through. Why? Because he is lazy, ditzy, and apparently too self-absorbed to waste any of his ‘precious time’ on a student.

Before someone counters with an ‘everyone is allowed to make mistakes’ argument, let me say that this isn’t an isolated incident. Yes, the SSM is important to me and could have a major impact on my future regarding college acceptance and scholarship potential, but he has fucked up even worse in the past. Mr. Gray is the chief reason why a previous near genius-level student was unable to go to Harvard University. The student had been actively recruited by every major university in the country-Harvard, Yale, Berkely, etc. He’d set his sights on Harvard and was working towards that, but because of Mr. Gray’s tardiness in getting him the information on becoming a National Merit Scholar he wasn’t able to amass enough scholarships. Now he’s at a second rate college, the only place his parents could afford to send him.

So my question is, why the fuck is this man still employed? Had I been the superintendent his resignation would have been asked for after the Harvard incident. I honestly feel sorry for the kids who will be dependent on him for scholarships and are looking to Mr. Gray for guidance.

2

I feel for you dude (babe?). I’d say a long talk with the superintendent is in order. Be professional and be polite, but be firm. If you’re polite, the superintendent just might give you an audience.

3

That sounds a hell of a lot like my ex-guidance counselor in high school, Ms. Morgan. She had a group of five “favorite” students. They were the only ones she bothered to help. I attended a very small, very rural high school. There were lots of kids who could have used a scholarship who never got any help from Ms. Morgan, as she was too busy with her “favorites.” (For the record, I was not one of her “favorites.”)

Aside from this, she is also responsible for destroying the relationship between my mother and her best friend. Her best friend’s son–whom I’ll call Jimmy–and I were nominated for the Parks Scholarship at NC State (full tuition, etc.) Everything was fine until it was time to mail off the applications. My parents were going to mail it the day I finished filling it out; however, Ms. Morgan insisted on mailing them together becasue she “didn’t want me to get an unfair advantage over Jimmy.” My dad informed her very politely that he would be mailing the application himself. About a week later, Jimmy’s mom quit speaking to my mom entirely. During one of their last conversations, my mom was able to get her ex-friend to admit that Ms. Morgan and the principal had talked with her about the application mailing incident. They apparently said something very bad about me and/or my family. What it was, we don’t know. But then again, if Jimmy’s mom was willing to believe whatever Ms. Morgan said, she wasn’t much a friend to begin with.

I remember a little seminar she held for the senior class about going to college. Basically, the only thing she said was “Now college is really expensive, mmkay?”

I also remember her telling me several times, “You’ll never make it at NC State.” Well, bitch, I’m a sophomore in the NCSU College of Engineering now. :smiley:

In answer to your question, YthDecay…you should take this issue to the county level. Bypass the principal entirely; based upon personal experience, he/she probably won’t listen to you. Also, try to get your parents involved; they might be able to contact other parents concerning this issue. A large number of concerned parents complaining to the school board just might do the trick.

4

YthDecay, you’ve just been introduced to a figure you’ll see again and again throughout your life, the lazy administrator. In almost any organization you’ll be involved in, educational, professional or personal, you’ll find some varient of this species. This is your chance to learn how to deal with them.

Remember that they deal with the least unpleasant thing first. The trick is to make doing what they have to do for you less unpleasant than not doing it. Learn the tricks: Stop by his office every day to see if it was done – when he realizes that you’re keeping tabs on what he’s doing, he’ll move it off his desk just to make you go away. If he screws up, make a stink with his bosses – teach him that your a complainer and he’ll get yours right to avoid the later conflict (but note that being a complainer does not work with non-lazy administrators – be careful when you complain).

If you can deal with this sort at an early age, you’ll be able to get things done later in life. As important as your academic subjects are, these real-life lessons can be key.

Good luck.

5

YthDecay,

Document.

Write down all of the problems you have obsevred. Get your friends to do the same. Keep a journal of all of the fuckups. Write it all down in a letter and send it to the Principal, Superintendent, School Board, and a copy to him. The Super and Board may not be aware of the problem. I know that at my school we saw the Super only once a year. (At commencement.) They normally are not aware of the day to day operation of the individual schools. If you get your parents, and your friends parents involved it will carry weight. They are potential voters. If they are getting enough letters of compliant, they will act. Elected officials (our school board is, I don’t know about yours) consider letters to be the tip of the iceberg. In small voteing areas, one letter is figured to represent 10 or more unvoiced complaints, in bigger voteing areas they could represent hundreds of disatisfied voters. So if the Board starts getting 5 or 10 letters every couple of months, it starts to be significant.

I can never hurt. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

6

Sorry, “IT can never hurt…”

7

When I was thirteen, I returned to the US from a few months in Ireland, several months in Florida, and five years in Spain. I was a chubby kid, with a really weird accent.

Fortunately, I had a psychic guidance counselor. Who knew enough to put me into all the D-level classes, without giving me a single test. Where I could learn remedial math while sitting in front of a sixteen-year-old who was just marking time until he could start working at his uncle’s garage. A great job, he assured me.

The same guidance counselor who, when I qualified as a National Merit Scholar, asked me how I’d cheated. And then neglected to tell me that if I pursued it, I had a chance at a National Merit Scholarship, which I desperately needed.

The same guy who just snorted when I told him I wanted to go on to college, despite the fact that I had the second-highest SAT scores in the school.

So, with no help at all, I applied for the only school I thought would take me, a little state college. And worked my way through, with little or no financial aid…

Anyway, YthDecay… don’t depend on this guy for a damned thing. Demand what you need from him, and contact the people you need to talk to yourself. Get him fired if possible, but most importantly, find out what resources are available to you, and take advantage of them.

And here’s a tip… college admissions offices are happy to help potential incoming freshmen plan their application process. It’s part of what they are there for.

Good luck, and don’t let this one idiot stop you.

8

We stopped taking my HS counsel after he told me not to take the PSAT (“waste of my time”) Unfortunately, you need those scores to even be considered for a National Merit scholarship. (FUCKWAD!)

We hired an outside counselor and told my HS to play hide and go fuck yourself. They could either shape up or shut up.

Loved the school, teachers were awesome. Admin though…bad, bad, bad. (My one and only time of being a ‘disapline problem’ I refused an award from the Vice Principal. You see, she wanted to give it with a long speech about how much I suck. Then called my parents when I walked out in the middle of her lecture.)

Don’t sweat it, but do everything yourself. Get Idiot-man to hand you your transcripts and read all the fine print yourself. Get your parents on him if he won’t hand stuff over. Daily calls along the lines of “Have you mailed/found XXX yet? did you remember to attach YYY?” Or have him sign for things. (Did this when a teacher lost papers and said we didn’t turn them in. Had her sign for my assignments when I turned them in. She suddenly got real organised, at least where I was concerned.)

And document everything the man touches. Its your college future, not his. you have the right to be in control here. he’s an advisor, and a poor one.

9

Actually, YthDecay, I think that the best way of getting some attention put on the guidance councilor is to have your parents write a letter to the head of the Dept. of Education in your state. I worked in the Vermont Dept. of Ed. for a couple of years, and you would be surprised, I think, at how seriously parent complaint letters are taken by the department. In VT, the commissioner himself calls the superintendent, and asks what’s going on. You can bet that the superintendent will aggressively find out what is happening, and that way you don’t get stuck doing all the work. Be sure to address it to the attention of the head of the Dept. of Ed. by name, that way it will go to his assistant to be read and dealt with.

10

Ahhh, guidance counselors. I swear the old axiom “those who can’t-- teach, those who can’t teach, teach gym,” should be extended to include guidence counselors. It never occured to me, until recently (I’m turning 40) that the reason that I never got a national merit scholarship, was because I never applied. I took the SAT and got a great score, but that was all guidance told me I had to do. Never said a word about paperwork. And all those awards dinners I went to for Elks and Rotarians? There were scholarships there, too. But I was the first generation in the family to go to college, so I didn’t know what I was doing, and my counselor told me Jack Squat. He also bolloxed up the paperwork for a valedictorian headed for an ivy league school, told a friend that she didn’t have what it took to make it in a small state school, and was generally useless to all but a chosen few. He died before retirement and I’m sad for his family, but relieved that God took him out of the school system.

Billdo is right. Ride the bastard. Use the spurs and the whip. Report him in writing to the superintendent if you must, but never trust him to do his job, no matter how easy or obvious. Teachers and other administrators might be sympathetic, if you need signatures and letters of recommendation, because they know this guy’s a Fuck-up and have probably gotten stuck covering for him before. But teachers take care of their own, and it’s up to the students and parents to get this guy disciplined or fired.

11

Ok, your guidance counselor’s incompetent. What does this have to do with the “public school system”?

12

The guidance counselor is employed by the public school system. The guidance counselor is incompetent. Ergo, “Incompetence in the public school system.”

And, since this man is still employed despite (presumably) years of fuck-ups, you’ve gotta wonder why he’s still employed. Why haven’t school administrators removed him? Encouraging satisfactory performance (and discouraging unsatisfactory performance) ought to be part of a competent administrator’s job.

13

::Spritle begins dousing himself with A-1::

Slow down a bit. As a former high school teacher and a current member of the “Administrative Personnel”, I have to take exception to some of the above advice.

DO NOT GO STRAIGHT TO THE SUPERINTENDENT/STATE DOE OFFICIALS!!

This is not the proper chain and will work against you. There are far too many angry parents callint the Supt. every day with issues from the color of gym shorts to fears that homosexuality is being snuck into the curriculum. Being another person who goes “straight to the top” will mix you with these people.

Your principal is certainly aware of the problems, but go to him/her first.

The above advice about documenting everything is good. I’d like to add that you should be completely factual; no room for opinions here.

Realize, however, that teachers (and GC - same pay scale) are grossly underpaid for the work and responsibility. Therefore, many teachers (and GC) leave the profession (I did) and few enter. In case you haven’t heard, there is a big crisis in America regarding finding enough teachers. Because of this, among other reasons, getting rid of an employee for “dropping the ball” is tough to justify - and hard to due with the NEA being one of the most powerful lobbying unions in the country.

I will admit that many GCs are teachers who burned out and wanted an education job that does not have the constant demands of the classroom, however, most GCs spent EXTRA time getting a masters in councilling because they wanted to do this (and they like kids).

Yes, your situation sucks. However, realize that very little will come of it. The best you could probably hope for is to go through the proper channels and possibly a letter will be put in his file. Not to be a wet blanket, but wanted to show some reality.

As mentioned above, you are learning an important lesson. There are people like this everywhere, and you probably won’t find out their nature until you depend on them and are let down. Best always to be in controll.

best of luck.

14

Which is why I’m glad that in college, we have professors as our advisors.

My advisor, Dr. Brett, is the best. Although, my high school counselor was actually a REALLY nice guy!

15

shrug
Sure, but if he were a waiter who was not doing his job he would be more likely to be disciplined or fired for it because it’s a more visible trade. There might be twenty other people that have been affected by this guidance councilor’s unprofessional attitude, maybe more… And over the course of his career, it’s hundreds. A complaint should be registered.
I understand that it’s a hard profession, and that the vast majority of educators care deeply about what they do. I used to work in educator licensing, and I met a lot of people that I am sure are wonderful at what they do. It’s also a pretty unforgiving job because they get very few rewards for a job well-done, yet the fingers are quick to point when things are less then peachy.
I’ve also seen (in my own education) how administrators cover up incidents because it would reflect poorly on them if they were discovered. In my own experience I saw that people got results if they went from the top down, and next to none if they went to the administration of the school or district.
In every profession there are those who have just become so lost and uncaring that they are no longer able to do their jobs. I just think that occasionally, someone needs to step in and let them know that it’s not ok.

16

My high school guidance counselor was a nice guy, but about as bright as a firefly. Before graduation, he brought me in to find out what classes I wanted the next year. I freaked out, thought that meant I wasn’t graduating (my attendance was an issue.) “Oh…wait, you’re not a junior?” Fuckin dickwad…

He took a leave of absence this year to be with his new baby, and they replaced him with the 9th grade English teacher. From what my sister says, he’s even worse…

17

I appreciate all of the thought and effort that went into your posts.

The suggestions were excellent, but I’m afraid I’m not quite ready to take such drastic action, like informing the DOE. Fortunately, my dealings with Mr. Gray will be over at the end of this year-I’m transferring. Until then I’ve got to get a set of standardized test scores from him, and ask him to get the transfer papers together.

For the moment I’m going to heed Billdo’s advice and politely check up on the paperwork until I get everything I need. Depending on how well everything works out, I’ll decide whether or not to go to the administration, or further if need be.

Again, thanks for the help. It’s good to know some Dopers have had similar counselors and lived through the experience, lol.

-YD

18

I hate my school’s administration. The principal is nuts about football and baseball. The assistant principal is a baseball coach. All the teachers that have any power are those that are also coaches.

Also, our guidance counselor is one of those holy-rollers that hates hates hates our drama program and is trying to eradicate it because she’s a bitch. The principal is working with her on this because they hate the drama director/choral teacher (same guy).

The thing is, if the Board does decide not to hire the drama/choir back, all hell is going to break loose, because a lot of the theatre/choir/band students have been privy to athletes getting preferential treatment, such as changed grades or excessive absences that were never counted, or bullying that was overlooked.

And I personally can’t wait because both the principal and the guidance counselor have screwed me over since I’ve been a freshman. I’m valedictorian of the class, a National Merit Commended Student, but the scholarships I got were nothing compared to number three in the class, who is a champion brown-noser, whose test scores are consistently much lower than mine, and it PISSES ME OFF because I NEED those scholarships.

Can’t wait to get out of this hellhole.

19

Nocturne, after reading your post-I wanted to fucking cry.

And people STILL want to do away with the Department of Education. I seriously just feel that in this country, education is looked upon as “frivolous” and just something we have to do-which is why people whine about school taxes-oh, just let them take a test and see how they do.

We prize sports and money over scholars. It just sickens me.

20

Thanks for the sympathy, Guin…it’s a damn shame when academic and artistic excellence take a backseat.
Not that I’m for eradicating athletics. I think sports are great, heck, I play them myself. What I DON’T like is the fact that they are a religion here, and everything else doesn’t matter.