Maybe, but since in this case the occupiers thought they legitimately owned the house, what would prevent them from killing you for attempting to trespass/threatening them (and apparently, you would do so with a weapon in hand, which would make killing you an even more defensible action).
Apart from that, it seems obvious to me that there must be a court decision in such a case. It works the same way over here (France) because the police has no way and no authority to decide who is the legitimate owner of a house. To begin with, I doubt most people leave for vacations carrying with them property titles. And even with them in hands, how would the police know that the property hasn’t actually been sold legitimately because it was abandonned, as the occupier says?
I guess in some rural areas the police might in fact know who’s living where, but even then, I doubt they could do more than trying to convince the occupier to leave peacefully. Police doesn’t even have the authority to enter a house, let alone to evict someone from it. And even if they know you’ve been living there for the last twenty years, there might be things that happened they aren’t aware of, and only a court can decide on such a matter, or decide whether or not a document is a fake or the real thing.
Okay. Now the squatters are being dicks. I’m sure by now they realize they were had by the scummy real estate agent. And they are still trying to screw over the rightful and innocent homeowners. No better than actual thieves IMO.
This is absurd and one of the areas where the law is an ass. These people are simple trespassers. Eviction is reserved for people who once held legal title to the land. These people never did. They were trespassers (albeit unwittingly) from day one. They have no interest in the property that the bankruptcy court can enforce.
I sometimes wonder what how mandatory Civ Pro courses would affect Internet discussions.
Not a fluffy high school civics course, nor a mechanically focused how-to, but a good, solid, grounding in civil procedure.
Oh, and an internship or clerkship practical is an integral part of this. Give people an idea why things are done they way they are.
I sometimes wonder how internet discussions would go when one party would bother to get off their high horse and actually explain why they thought who was wrong about what and for what reasons.
I know thats a fracking radical concept but maybe thats just peon me talking out of my ass.
Their point is probably that all the actions of the squatters have been legal; anyone can file the appropriate paperwork. I’m all for procedure, but there always needs to be room for common sense. No homeowner should have to defend their legal right to their own home if the initial purchase was legitimate. How hard would it be for someone to look up the deed to the house, see who has been paying the taxes on it, etc? There has to be tons of paperwork at city hall documenting who owns the house. This is one of those extremely simple but huge things that sometimes slips under the rug.
I’ve heard some stories about this. The problem is that the police don’t see this as a criminal matter, but rather a civil matter that needs to be sorted out in court. Meanwhile the squatters are in the house.
Isn’t trespassing a criminal matter though? Maybe they are not communicating with the police well. “We own this house. We left, we came back, there are people in our house. Please arrest and remove them. Yes, I’d like to file charges. Thank you.”
“We own this house. We bought it recently, and these people just tried to enter our new house. Please arrest and remove them. Yes, I’d like to file charges. Thank you.”
The problem is that everyone claims to be the legitimate homeowner. It’s not a typical squatting situation, where the squatters are aware they don’t officially have title.
The problem is that the squatters say that THEY own the house. They even have some (fraudulent, but good enough to fool the cops) papers they can show, if needed. The police don’t know whom to believe.
Theft is a criminal matter, but if you claim that someone on ebay receives the good you sold without paying, the police will not arrest them. If it can be shown that the person is fraudulently claiming something then it does become a criminal matter.
It may be that the occupiers were truly innocent at first, that they were the victims of fraud, but certainly by now they should know this and should know that they have no legal right to the house. I think they and their attorneys are being dicks.
And, of course, were the people to break in while you’re down to the store, then it is trespassing and the police will arrest the people.
Absolutely. The real-estate agent was an entrepreneurial Job Creator in the finest American tradition. Perhaps he did bend the law a little, but don’t we all cheat on our taxes? The squatters are foreigners. Do we even know what God they worship? Probably they planned on using the house to make bombs. But even if they were “only” ignorant, don’t they deserve what they have coming? It’s a harsh world out there and we can’t afford to pander to the needs of every ignorant Tom, Dick, and Abdul.
It’s not that the papers are “good enough to fool the cops.” It’s not the cops’ job to resolve competing property claims.
Trespass is an unusual crime because it is closely tied to a legal status, namely a property right. If there are competing property claims to the same property, it is not something the police can resolve. That’s why there are civil courts.
The judge’s not there to wield the justice hammer, but to ensure the Rule of Law. And as mentioned*, this* Law needs some serious tweaking to deal with these circumstances.