I second this. I’ve lived in the deepest south and the most frozen north of the lower 48 and the only difference in the fundies is the accents. I’ve never been to Alaska, but I don’t know why they’d be any different. Palin certainly isn’t any different from what I’ve read. She’s just as redneck as anyone in the south, it’s just a different terrain.
Sarah seems to be trying to deny her association with a Pentecostal denomination:
quote]In an Aug. 14 interview with Time magazine, she once again described herself as Christian. When pressed, she said she attended a “nondenominational Bible church.”
“I was baptized Catholic as a newborn and then my family started going to nondenominational churches throughout our life,” she said. She did not mention her longtime association with the Assemblies of God, which claims nearly 3 million members and is one of the biggest Pentecostal groups in the U.S.
[/quote]
It is the same denomination that had John Ashcroft covering up statues in the Justice Department.
She left this denomination in 2002 and attends more than one church now. I’m glad that she isn’t part of this one anymore. In 2004 the minister had some question about whether John Kerry’s supporters could go to heaven. That is really sad.
Non-affiliated since 1988. I’ve always tended to agree with the Democrats’ social policies and the Republicans’ stated fiscal policies, but (a) the Republicans don’t have a good history of being fiscally conservative and (b) I get more of a feeling of divisiveness coming from the Republicans. The Dems, OTOH, (a) can’t reach consensus on how to make their way out of a paper bag and (b) see (a). I’ve voted Democrat for all presidential elections, usually thinking I’m picking the lesser of two evils. However, for state offices, I end up voting for Republicans about a quarter of the time.
But both parties piss me off at times. There was some other guy named McCain running for the Republican nomination in 2000. He was a maverick, disliked pork barrel politics and was fairly liberal on social issues. I could have voted for him.
Palin:
Fit to be VP? No. As she said in her own speech last night, this is not “a journey of personal discovery.” You want to be VP? Come down to the lower 48, get yourself some exposure to complex urban life where the subjects are not always black and white.
I wanted to give her a fair chance to convince me of her competency, but she came out too negative too quickly, and gosh, she’s just a hockey mom, and isn’t that so folksy? Well, I don’t want a hockey mom; I’m looking for someone who can step in and lead the country in the aftermath of a president’s unexpected demise. You can have kids who play hockey, but you’re my employee, and you do not go watch them play when you’re on my dime.
Fit to be President? No. It’s not even a question of being able to stand up to Putin; the evil power brokers running Washington will flay her alive. She’d be terrorized into being Rove’s sock puppet before McCain’s body even cooled down.
Changed my vote? No. It confirmed my worst fears. This new McCain has been sucking Bush’s pecker for eight years, and he’s sold his soul to the religious right, as his choice of Palin shows. These people are absolutely rabid about keeping their sheep deluded, docile and dumb, and it’s the frickin 21st century. Let’s keep fairy tales and ghost stories out of the curriculum, put some sex education in and let women keep the right to have abortions.
[groo’s abortion moment]
I’ve undoubtedly known more than four women who’ve had abortions, but only four have told me that they have, and they weren’t dancing down the street, either before or afterwards. They were stunned and anguished. When the subject of abortion comes up, I expect thoughtful people to scratch their heads and say that it’s a really difficult subject, then try to explain what they think. Anyone with a default, rote answer (even if they say, “Fuck yeah! Abortions on demand!”) starts losing me. You have just a few weeks to face some difficult questions, questions that no one can ever really answer, and then you have to make a decision and live with it. Not Simple. Cannot Be Answered With a Sound Bite.
[/moment]
A woman who knows her baby will have Down’s Syndrome is making a choice to live a much more difficult life herself, and is bringing someone into this world who will have a very difficult life. That would not be my choice if I already had four healthy children, but it’s her life. Were she the VP, she’d have occasional hellish times when things got too difficult, and I don’t think she’d be able to devote as much energy to the job as someone who didn’t make that sacrifice.
Also, a 44 year old woman who’s 6.5 months pregnant starts leaking fluid. One could describe this as a minor “emergency.” I don’t want a VP whose response to a minor emergency is to make so many wrong decisions, delaying getting medical attention for more than eight hours. What if she encounters an emergency larger than this? Fly Air Force One back to Wasilla?
If McCain chose Al Gore as VP, he would be a Big Effing Maverick with Big Maverick Balls, and I’d vote for that ticket.
I find most Republicans anywhere from unpleasant to execrable, and I agree 100% with everything Tom Tomorrow and Ted Rall wrote about Bill Clinton. Always vote for who I believe would be the best in the position. Nader for President in '00, Kerry in '04 (albeit one of the tougher choices), and IIRC I supported Linda Lingle for Hawaii Governor. I thought John Edwards was easily the best Democratic candidate (and then Obama won, so let’s not bring up any irrelevant after-the-fact issues, 'kay?). So no partisanship from me.
The more I learn about Sarah Palin, the lower she sinks. I completely agree with most of the consenses in this thread about the strikes against her: creationism, extreme antiabortion stance, proposed library censorship, no political savvy, abuses of power, antiintellectualism etc. etc. On top of her Jerry Springer lifestyle and extremely shaky handling of personal issues, these make her exactly what this nation does not need right now. I’m not sure if she’d be any better than Dick Cheney, and chew on that for a bit.
And I for one am really, really tired of all these clueless, stumbling dolts in the White House. Okay, Dan Quayle was good for a lot of cheap jokes (and in the end pretty much harmless); I realy didn’t need to live through one ridiculous military misadventure and embarrassing scandal after another with Bill Clinton, nor the jaw-dropping cornucopia of imbecility that’s been the Dubya administration. We have some serious, major crises on our hands, and whether the top man or a heartbeat away, I do not want that person to look like his or her own SNL parody.
So a definite no on #1 and #2. As for #3, I wasn’t going to vote McCain, but this pretty much lead-pipe cinches Obama as my choice. With such a thoughtless pick, it’s clear that McCain just doesn’t give a damn about making the slightest effort to win this election. He’s going to coast on the backs of a complaint, sycophatic media and hordes of unthinking, easily-sppoked voters, just like Dubya did before him. He deserves to get smacked down hard.
You are aware that the Vice president also has the vote on a bill if there is a tie and can make a big difference in how a lot of things go for the country as a whole,aren’t you? There is more than just stepping in should the president die. Look how Chaney helped mess things up.
Monavis
Palin is very different from Dick Cheney; Cheney made it on to the ticket for the simple reason that Bush needed to have someone who was older, had been around the block, and could add gravitas. (of course, that is not how it worked out. He turned out to be a despicable little man who shoots people, advocates for war, and generally acts like…well…let’s just say his first name says it all).
Palin is there to bring a different energy to the campaign. And look cute. There, I said it.
I think that Chaney,Rumsfield wanted Bush because he appealed to the religious right and they were instrumental in getting Bush elected. Palin fills that bill for McCain. She will appeal to the women on the right but not the Hillery voters unless they only want a woman in office. She energizes the religious right but not the moderates(at least the women I know).
McCain’s choice tells us we are really going to get much of the same policies as Bush.
Monavis
Cheney at least looked qualified on paper. The Barracuda is even meaner than Cheney is and is totally unqualified. At least when Cheney wiped his ass with the Bill of Rights, he was doing it knowingly. Palin’s probably never even read it. She’s the bitchy church lady who goes to PTA meetings to complain about Harry Potter books and whispers about the coloreds moving into the neighborhood. Why the media has decided to annoint her as a celebrity and conceal her tue history and extremism is beyond me. I think it’s like Peggy Noonan said – they go for the “bullshit narrative.” The media goes for the stupid-ass, Olympics back-story. She’s a mom. She has 5 kids. One of her babies has Downs Syndrome. She eats moose. All irrelevant, soap opera bullshit. Since the mdia is not going to do its job vetting this bitch, I think Obam/Biden has to do it and start running some ads pointing out her extremist social positions, her innapropriate (and sometimes unconstitutional) attempts to impose her religiosity on the state, her really bizarre egotism and abuses of power, etc. They should also point out that she called Hillary a “whiner.” Let’s see how the Hillary women like that.
Wow. Karl Rove would be proud. Keep it up, though-- you’re making me like her more and more!
Don’t snipe and run. Tell me one thing I said that isn’t true. Are you now in favor of teaching creationism in schools.Are you a big fan of book banning? Do you think the Iraq occupation is “part of God’s plan?” Do you think woimen should be forced to bear the babies of their victims? Do you have an opinion on her abuses of power? Are you comfortable with someone who admits she hasn’t paid any attention to Iraq suddenly becoming CIC?
These are all completely fair and legitimate criticisms. If think they’re not, explain why.
Not one of your more useful contributions.
I disagree with her position on abortion, but respect her right to that opinion, and respect her for holding to it in the face of carrying a DS child. I dislike her mooting the banning of books - let’s be clear, she never actually tried to ban any, it was nipped in the bud - but no doubt she’ll play that as a learning experience, much as Obama may similarly play issues with his Community Organiser role. I prefer Obama’s position on healthcare: I think America would benefit overall from some form of socialised medicine, though not to the same extent as we have here in the U.K… I’m in favour of removing all Allied troops from Iraq sooner rather than later. I think her position on ANWR is entirely sensible.
But really, I still know too little of her to fall one way or the other - she’s only been in the public eye for a week.
She doesn’t respect anyone else’s right to their opinion. Opinions are beside the point. She wants to remove the legal choice and use the full weight of the state to force little girls to have rape babies. That’s not something that can just be dismissed as her “opinion.” She wants to make it the law, and the US Supreme Court is currently only one seat away from losing Roe.
1, Her own choice is beside the point. She wants to take away everyone else’s choice, that’s the point.
2. WTF is supposed to be so goddamn special about not aborting a DS child? Is the implication that it’s some kind of extaordinary, selfless sacrifice that np pro-choice woman would ever make. MOST people still have the baby. Most pro-choice women still have the baby. It means nothing, proves nothing and indicates no special virtue. In my opinion, the fact that right wingers think a Downs syndrome baby is a such a burden that it requires exceptional personal virtue to choose to have one does not speak well of them. Liberals don’t dehumanize special needs children like that. We see them as individuals, not as political statements, and not as something so revulsive that we expect others to think we’re special for having them.
We know she’s unqualified, we know she has a theocratic bent, we know she’s under an ethics investigation for abuse of power and that she has used her office in some very questionable ways in the past.
OK, then you said "The Barracuda is even meaner than Cheney is and is totally unqualified. " She has slightly less years as Gov than Obama has a Senator. Thus if she is “totally unqualified” you have admitted that Obama is mostly unqualified.
"At least when Cheney wiped his ass with the Bill of Rights, he was doing it knowingly. Palin’s probably never even read it. " Cite? :dubious:
“She’s the bitchy church lady who goes to PTA meetings to complain about Harry Potter books and whispers about the coloreds moving into the neighborhood.” Do you have cites she ever complained about Harry Potter or whispers about coloured?:dubious:
And you still bring up the swiftboating attack by Kilkenny on Palin about book banning. That (now that the original Frontiersman article has been found) has been completely discredited.
I don’t see what basis you have for saying she complained about Harry Potter or that she is a closet racist. Can you provide a cite for those claims? And as for the Harry Potter thing, please don’t link to library-gate, unless you have a list of books that she allegedly wanted to ban and that Harry Potter is on that list.
As for her calling Hillary a “whiner”, that’s simply not true. She criticized Hillary for the “perceived whine” when she called out the press for treating her differently. BFD. I think she was right.
Wow aren’t there 20 other threads to not derail about Palin without engaging a non-independent about his extreme viewpoint?
I was being being satirical with that part. I was describing a “type” that she reminds me of. We do know that she wanted to ban books from her local library. Do you have any disagreement with any of my non-satirical criticisms.
Here’s the quote:
I don’t give her a pass on using the qualification “perceived.” She clearly believed it to be the case.
It’s also hypcriticl in the extreme considering that her entire week on the national scene has ben marked by nothing but increasingly shrill whining about imaginary sexist attacks.
I am an independent, dude. I’ve been a registered independent since the day I first registered to vote in 1984 (I voted for Reagan). I have voted for Republicans before and am not opposed to doing so again under the right circumstances. Those circumstances would have to involve a disavowal of the religious right. I was hoping McCain would do it. I used to really like McCain, especially since he was one of the only people in Congress who semed to really want to do anything about campaign finance reform. I’ve said before that I would have voted for McCain over Kerry in '04. He lost me when he capitulated so abjectly to religious conservatives in this election. His last chance to really get my respect back was with his VP pick. If he had told the Bible bangers to get fucked and chosen the guy he really wanted (Lieberman), I would have been immensely impressed (even though I can’t stand Lieberman).
So don’t tell me what I am, ok.
:dubious:
Anyway, to answer the OP: I’m probably not the kind of independent you’re after, since the only Republican I’ve ever voted for was some single-issue candidate running solely on a medical marijuana platform, and I never for a moment considered voting McCain anyway, but what the hell:
- No
- Pfffffffffft
- It made me consider voting for Obama instead of Cynthia McKinney. For about 30 seconds.
Yeah, Rove does the same thing. It’s call a smear, and it often can not be proven or disproven.
No, we don’t. We know that she inquired about the process.
I’m not sure how to differentiate the satirical from the non.
It’s not about giving her a pass. I think if you use the actual quote, instead of your inaccurate paraphrase, then it’s no big deal and I think the Dems would be fools to try and use it against her.
OMG!! A politician was being hypocritical? Throw them to the wolves. Especially since she was being so “in the extreme”. :rolleyes: Anyway, I haven’t heard anything shrill coming from her, but her critics (like you) certainly are shrill.
OK, you’re an independent, can’t you please take this side argument to another of the 20 threads on Palin?