Why don’t you try looking at it? The article you link to is talking about sexual health and happiness and trying a comparison between US and Europe. It makes no mention of sexual crime.
Unlike you, I actually did read the article, and am not grasping at random names for credibility. Statistics from the World Bank, the UN, and the McKinsey institute on income, urbanisation and demographics are not statistics on rape or sexual violence, and he makes no use of them in his account, they’re merely infographics to catch the eye. All that article does is present an in depth account of the Delhi gangrape, and the qualitative statements he has used(the ones you have cited) are his opinion, and are simply not useful for making any sort of judgement about the rate of rape incidence in India. Is rape a problem in India? Yes. But there is no evidence that it is worse than anywhere else in the world. The problem that is much worse in India, and that urgently requires solution, is that our legal institutions deal with the issue badly. The point I’m trying to make is that cultural institutions in rural areas have evolved over time to deal with the problem of poor legal institutions and sexual violence to some extent, which is why the assumption that sexual violence in rural areas in India is higher than in urban areas is not a safe assumption.
The point is that conservative cultures have a higher rate of sexual dysfunction compared to more liberal societies. But then again, if that cite wasn’t enough, I’ll provide another for you, here ya go.
I’m not grasping at anything, but for you to point blank reject the cite due to your inability to accept the fact that this thing is common and under-reported in India speaks of your arrogance.
To me it just sounds like you’re trying to whitewash the very worst problems affecting Indian society by saying it’s more of a legal problem, rather than the fact Indian society has a gender imbalance towards males, and women are segregated in society and not seen as equals, and there is endemic poverty, all of which can and have been proven to correlate towards a more higher sexual crime rate, and can be witnessed as well in Egyptian society.
Huh. I could have sworn that’s not what your point was. Let me go acnd check…Yup. That was not your point.
[QUOTE=Ryan_Liam]
My views are that conservative societies tend to have more sexual crime than ones that aren’t.
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Dude, do you even read the stuff that you cite? Or do you just hrow things out there in the hope that no one else will actually bother to click on them? That article doesn’t support your views in the least.
Eh? I haven’t for a moment denied that rape is under reported in India. It almost certainly is. But to be appreciably worse than many other countries on a per capita basis, rape incidence would have to be between 50 to a 100 times higher, even assuming that there’s no under reporting in other countries. I see no evidence to accept an adjustment factor as ridiculously large as that.
Each of these problems exists in India, and there is good evidence that they do. I absolutely accept them.
You asked to see a comparison between US and European sexual crime rates, you were not satisfied with the previous link, so I provided another which has the comparison in the form of a graph, but go ahead, make assertions that I don’t read the stuff I provide.
No one has even suggested it be that large.
Just sounds like you’re whitewashing because you’re defensive of the fact India is being rightly criticized.
The fact that India and Egypt have had similar problems in regards to sexual violence should make it obvious that there is at least some correlation of conservatism and sexual violence.
*“If you are here and you see a girl dressed in an indecent way, what are you going to do? You can’t help it.”
So said one of a group of young Egyptian men, hanging around close to the square, when we asked about the increase in sexual assaults against women there.
“We are depressed, we can’t find jobs and money, what do you expect?” says another of the youths, who was unsurprisingly reluctant to give his name.*
*
Analysts say deep-rooted changes in social attitudes are needed to make India’s women more accepted and secure. There is deeply entrenched patriarchy and widespread misogyny in vast swathes of the country, especially in the north. And the state has been found wanting in its protection of women. *
Egypt suffers similar problems as India does with a gender imbalance, conservative restrictions on female mobility and poverty all combine to make sexual violence more likely.
Mate, your assertion is that more conservative parts of the world have higher rates of sexual crime. That is the claim I have asked you to back up with a cite.
Have you read the OP? Did you read your own posts? If it isn’t that large, then India has the same problems that everyone does, and this bullshit about rape being India’s national pastime are equally applicable to everywhere. Rape is a problem everywhere. It is in India too.
Nonsense. I’m whitewashing nothing. I don’t for a moment pretend that rape is less of a problem in India than it is elsewhere. And even if our cultural institutions result in fewer rapes, they come with significant trade offs in women’s equality and liberty, and that is a poor state of affairs that needs to change. But unlike you, I understand what the issue is. I’m not reading anecdotal news articles and making up stuff about the state of the world
The US is more conservative than Europe, hence the comparison, also, in that link I gave you, it had more statistics from the third world which indicated a higher sexual crime rate, and usually, third world countries are more conservative in their mindset, that’s a given.
Yeah, but in India it’s more of a problem than anywhere else, why don’t you understand that?
How have I made stuff up? I gave you credible citations, if you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend that it’s not something which is pointing to India having a significant sexual crime problem, then go right ahead.
Is Sweden more conservative than Europe? Is Egypt more conservative than the USA? Is India more conservative than the US? Answer these questions, and then go and look at your cite, and then try and comprehend why it utterly fails to make your point for you.
I’ll understand it as soon as you back it up with facts, which you have utterly failed to do.
Nonsense. You obviously have no idea what a credible citation is. You cited an in depth account of the Delhi gang rape which has infographics that bear no relation to the rape or to sexual crime, and thought that they supported the reporter’s opinion and made it credible. You cite an article about sexual health and happiness to back up your point about sexual crime. You cite sexual crime statistics to try and back up your point when they say the opposite to what you believe they say.
Sigh. You can’t read your own cites, and you can’t read or understand other people’s statements, even when you’ve quoted them, and when they explicitly recognise what you immediately go ahead and say they don’t. I give up.
The cite shows the sexual crime rate is more of a problem in developing countries, I do not understand why you fail utterly to comprehend this.
See above.
Why do I get the impression that no cite whatsoever would please you. I gave you two separate cites, one which was Delhi specific, one which you critiqued about Indias high sex crime rate, and another one which provided a graph of Indias sexual crime rate, all of which were on the high end of the data provided in comparison to other countries measured. In regards to America and Europe, that was a comparison of how one culture which is more conservative than the other will produce more results of sexual crime, which I provided in this graph.
Let us bask in your ability to talk down Indias sexual abuse culture and just blame it on improper law enforcement, which I might remind you, is a catch-22, because if law enforcement won’t do much about it, it merely encourages that said behaviour, but anyway, Godspeed pal.
You seem to have some trouble understanding your own cites. You do realize that the Globalpost article shows India has a much lower rate of reported rape than the US or Europe, right? Even if the actual number is 10 times the reported number, the rate would still be lower than the US.
I actually think it has to do with their population skewing due to sex-selective abortion, combined with Hinduism which is a sexist and classist religion. Keep in mind that the girl who was raped and murdered on that bus a couple years ago was from a higher caste and a college student. If she was merely an untouchable I doubt it would even be a story, sadly.
I’m going to leave your opinions on Hinduism alone, but your statement on the victim of the Delhi gangrape is factually incorrect. She was also from a ‘lower’ caste. She was a college student, yes, and to some extent I’m sure her class had some role to play in the story becoming as big as it did, although the brutality of the incident and police apathy caused most of the anger. Caste in urban India is a largely meaningless concept, which interacts with most people’s lives only in very few circumstances(marriage for instance). Rural India is a different matter.
Talking of dysfunction, the Penn State incidents and the kids molested by Catholic priests takes the US to a completely different level. Not only for the number of incidents but the systemic way in which they were sought to be covered up.
Makes one ask genuinely - What the Hell is going on here?