Uh, just which article did you read?
[QUOTE]
Martin Hyde are you really arguing that nonsectarian prayers aren’t really prayers?
Thats not what I was talking about. Freedom of religion should mean that they can expect to follow reasonable practices even on the taxpayers time. Muslims pray several times a day. Should a Muslim legislator be allowed to have the appointed prayer time? Can teachers read there Bible at school as long as it’s break or study time? Can religious legislators wear the symbols of their religion openly without being accused of violating seperation? These are all things that have and will come up.
Thats why I suggested a few moments of silence. No one is asked to even listen to any belief they don’t support and it shows respect for those with beliefs by allowing them prayer time. Perhaps thses folks had a different compromise in mind that they couldn’t agree on. I’d be interested in hearing about it.
Probably the same reason you can’t seem to comprehend there attitudes.
If someone sincerely believes that belief is better for everyone and it’s part of their duty to witness then they will look for and create opportunities to do that. Some even think of the US as a Christian country founded on Christian principles and it’s part of our heritage to keep America predominantly Christian and get the christian message out there. For others it’s a simple majority issue. If the majority is Christian and decide to do things in a “Christian” format then the minority just has to cope.
I don’t agree with any of these reasons but they are not hard to understand.
The nerve of some people, how dare this guy tell us how we can pray!
Just who in the hell does he think he is, Jesus Christ!
Sorry Jesus, I just couldn’t resist the temptation.
Not sure what I was thinking when I typed that, I should have said, “the judge banned Christian prayer” outright. Which I do think was the judge’s intent. Because he specifically said the word “Christ” cannot be used. I think he means the term nonsectarian to mean it can’t refer to any religion in specific (as opposed to just being a prayer that is Christian in nature but specifically nondenominational.)
Now, the reason that would contradict with Marsh v. Chambers is that case specifically allowed a Christian prayer, albeit a nondenominational Christian prayer.
I wonder how strong the “encouragement” was, and how much pressure there was.
I couldn’t find the part about people being prevented from leaving. That part really bothers me, and I’d appreciate the cite for it.
It’s actually in the block you quoted, underlined.
Unless I’m reading this wrong, they never considered the content of the prayers, but made it clear that certain content could be unconstitutional.
Sounds like proselytizing and/or advancing to my ears!
When I was teaching in public schools, I sometimes had to sit through fundamentalist sermons that were offensive to my own Christian beliefs. I can’t imagine how our students of other faiths may have felt. And I wasn’t the only teacher who bristled.
Leaving these religious services risked our jobs because we were leaving our “posts of duty” – a dismissable offense.
I faced some harassment from school administrators for my differing religious beliefs, but some colleagues were quick to tell me that I should “pray without ceasing.” (They did not appear to be praying at the time.)
No one keeps anyone from praying in any of the legislatures. I think every Christian believes that God can hear silent prayer. This isn’t really about God hearing prayers at all.
[Emily Litella]Never mind[Emily]
Forcing someone to stay, or pressuring them to take part violates the federal constitution nonestablishment clause.
Doesn’t all prayer in some way “advance or proselytize” a specific belief - ie, a belief in some manner of deity to hear that prayer?
It’s a start. Ways to go, yet, before they’ll be opening the session with a prayer to Cthulhu. Political progress takes time. But we’ll get there! 
As I see it, religious people have two choices:
- Pray when you want to pray. But don’t make it part of our government. Nothing stops as many Congress-critters as want to from getting together and praying in whatever grouping they please, praying whatever they want to. You do that, and I’ll grant your beliefs lots of respect and leeway.
- Act like dickheads. But don’t get all whiny about people attacking religion. If you want respect, see point 1. Otherwise, you don’t deserve it.
But there are appropriate venues for that, just as there are appropriate venues for having sex! I truly believe that having good sex goes a long way in creating a peaceful, loving environment for all of mankind. But I’m not going to drape myself across the podium in the rotunda and get down with that hot representative from the third ward to make my point.
And we don’t operate on the basis of majority rule when it comes to things like separation of church and state.
I dunno. It might make politics more appealing.
A muslim could pray on his break. Wearing a symbol doesn’t take up government time and isn’t coercive. Huge difference.
I’m a little confused. How is it that you had to listen to sermons in a public school? How were sermons allowed in a public school?
I got that part from a newsletter from the Indiana Civil Liberties Union. I just now finished pawing through the recycle bin, but I could not find it.
The lobbyist says he got up to walk out, but he was stopped at the door by Statehouse security. The state has not commented on his assertion, IIRC. He joined in the ICLU lawsuit.
I believe Zoe was teaching back before prayer and such in school was ruled unconstitutional (it only happened in 1962, after all).
I agree…I did say* reasonable* expression. I don’t consider open blatently Christian prayer reasonable expecially if others are objecting. A few moments of silence seems reasonable to me. I’m just noting that there will be disagreements over what constitutes reasonable. The 1st amendment also guarentees freedom of worship so as we define the paramenters of the establishment clause we must also define how we defend people’s right to worship. It’s a two sided coin.