I don’t know why I’m not putting this in the Pit, but I thought we might get some kind of debate out if it. As for me, I am banging my head on my desk over and over till my eyes bleed.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Harking back to the Revolutionary and Civil wars, the House is talking about a national day of humility, prayer and fasting to seek guidance from God during a time of war and terrorism. “It is a resolution that I think all of us can support with humility and grace and our love for our great nation,” Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Ill., said Wednesday. But several lawmakers were less sure. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, an opponent of the war in Iraq, said, “This resolution may be seen by some as an attempt to inject religion into this war at a time when some of America’s enemies abroad are asserting that this indeed is a war about religion.” Rep. Ted Strickland, D-Ohio, said he supported the resolution but was “a little troubled that we would presume to tell the American people what they should do to secure the blessings and protection of Providence.” But Rep. Todd Akin, R-Mo., chief sponsor of the measure, said it has long been America’s way, “when we get into an armed conflict, to turn to God and to ask his support.”
The resolution says Americans should use the day of prayer “to seek guidance from God to achieve a greater understanding of our own failings and to learn how we can do better in our everyday activities, and to gain resolve in meeting the challenges that confront our nation.” The Senate approved a similar resolution last week, stating that it was the sense of the Senate that March 17 should be a national day of prayer and fasting.
I dont know why you are so upset about this. They are asking all those who believe in prayer to do so for a particular cause. They are not mandating the US marshalls to shoot anyone who does not pray on March 17. Since its already the 26, its all rather moot …to boot. sorry
its no big thang. All those who want to pray for somthing or rather, please do so. All those who dont…talk amongst yourselves.
What purpose does it serve? What is it supposed to accomplish for the country. It’s completely gratuitous and it’s a violation of the establishment clause. What a bunch of crap.
Well, that’s one way of putting it. Another could be that supposedly rational people are requesting that a day be set aside to request supernatural intervention on behalf of our side in a morally ambiguous war. Perhaps we could appoint a chief astrologer to divine the likelihood of victory, and sacrifice a few small animals, just so all bases are covered.
I swear, our current administration is getting more bizarre by the day.
Er, one question, though. Why the emphasis on fasting?
Figures. We’ll probably get to watch on C-Span, too. They just don’t get it, do they?
X-Slayer said, "I dont know why you are so upset about this. They are asking all those who believe in prayer to do so for a particular cause. They are not mandating the US marshalls to shoot anyone who does not pray on March 17. Since its already the 26, its all rather moot …to boot. sorry
its no big thang. All those who want to pray for somthing or rather, please do so. All those who dont…talk amongst yourselves."
They’re talking about making a RESOLUTION. They’re using government time and money to plan a fuckin’ prayer meeting. I’m stunned that you don’t see the problem here. HELLO! They have a church if they want to talk to god about siding with the US!
Would somebody suggest to our esteemed Senators and Representatives that they’re not God, and their lawmaking power is limited to what the Constitution equips them to do (a heck of a lot, last time I looked)?
I think a day set aside when believers can together petition their deity or deities in pursuit of a common cause is an excellent idea. I don’t think Congress is the appropriate body to call for one; I’m not sure there is an appropriate body (make a guess how many large denominations don’t participate in the National Council of Churches, and then add in all the non-Christian, non-Jewish groups and individuals).
Fasting is usually seen as an act of self-discipline intended to focus the person doing it on the spiritual goal he’s set himself, JFTR.
All that said, the text of the resolution as given in the last paragraph of the OP is one that’s by no means objectionable to me personally, though I think it’s inappropriate for the Congress to presume to call their non-monotheist* constituents to such a prayer.
I suppose I should make an exception for polytheists who do recognize the existence of the Christian God, such as Freyr. I swear, I can write simply; it’s just that the issues that get discussed on this board mandate a plethora of subordinate clauses to maintain accuracy! Sheesh!
It serves to focus those professing faith in a greater power to dedicate one day a year to specific prayer on behalf of our nation. That you consider it gratuitous is hardly a valid point. As the NDP has been in effect both before and after Jefferson’s stint as president and the SCOTUS misinterpretation of the intent of a phrase lifted from one of his personal letters, I’d have to say it does not in fact violate the establishment clause. It carries no weight of law, it cannot not enforced, it is not worthy of the hot air swirling around it.
Oh, and if you’re really into this sort of thing, take a look at your governor’s proclamations. Even in Minnesota I’m sure you’d find some doozies!
Why do you need the government to order you to pray for your country? It’s gratuitous because it is an absolutely empty piece of legislation. It’s pure symbolism without a shred of substance. It’s also a violation of the establishment clause because it amounts to a government endorsement of theism.
For pete’s sake, Polycarp, I expect this from others, but sheesh! This does NOT have the effect of law; no one can be forced to honor it, no one is under threat or coercion to even so much as pay attention to it; just how many people in these fifty United States of America do you reckon’ even know about this?
Fine. The Continental Congress in 1775 first declared a NDP, Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War, Harry Truman as well. It took me two minutes to find just this little bit out. It’s hardly scarred our poor, miserable, defiantly irreligious bellicose natures, has it?
Frankly, it’s comments like this one that truly make my jaw ache. We are not a homogenous society, right? Can we not address issues that a strong majority of the people support without constantly harping about those left out? AND WHY SHOULD WE? I swear. This reminds me of children; it simply cannot be all or nothing at all.