Indicates that a prayer gathering for members of congress is scheduled for today in the capital rotunda. I had not heard about this before. My personal preference would have them conduct this somewhere other than the center of the capital building, and preferably under the guise of an organization other than as Congress.
I am not sure when this 2-hour event will take place. If it coincides with normal business hours, I certainly would consider it an inappropriate comingling of church and state.
I will also be interested to see what type of publicity follows this event. Will we get a scorecard to see if our reps prayed for their constituency?
Mostly, I see this as unnecessary. Similar to my position on school prayer. There are plenty of places for organized and demonstrative worship, and very few where quiet and personal devotion is prohibited. I would find it less offensive if it were taking place somewhere else. But the cumulation of factors make it quite troubling to me.
I suspect that believers would support this as a effort towards unity and inclusiveness, while as a disbeliever I consider it as exclusionary and disrespectful of us.
I don’t want to be paying taxes so a bunch of people can pray for 2 hours. If they do it on their own time, that’s fine, but not during business hours.
I don’t particularly have a problem with it. I believe we have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. If you don’t like it, don’t go, don’t watch, etc. etc.
As someone who worked in Congress for a bit, I can tell you that “normal business hours” don’t really exist there. Any given day, members or staff might be there 8 hours or maybe 14-15 hours, and even upwards of 20 if the legislative schedule is particularly heavy. Working through weekends is also not a shocking occurrence.
As for the actual event cited in the OP, and after reading tom’s links, it seems that it is pretty much an “eh” to me. No one is forced to go to it (and I suspect that unless there are TV cameras or a heavy press contingent there, not many will go) and it has no bearing on legislation. I’d also like to point out that the House version specifically states that the gathering not take place when either House is in session. Also that the Senate version is co-sponsored by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, not exactly a member of the religious right.
True, true, the buildings are different. Clever. I was mocking the idea that anyone could get his panties in a bunch over “office hours” in Congress because of the dreaded topic religion but that wasn’t an issue WRT Clinton’s infamous ‘quickies’. Priorities, dontcha know.
So do I, so do I. Just won’t go away. As long as someone pops up with one, I’ll pop up with an equal absurdity.
Nope, nada. As a grrrl, that’d mean it was me giving the hummer to Clinton, and since I think he’s major slime, I’d really gag, and next thing you know, another blue dress!
There can of course be no Constitutional objection to members of Congress, singly or in groups, publicly expressing their faith in Divine Providence, fear of the LORD, fealty to Dread Cthulhu, etc. I confess to being somewhat bemused by comparisons of the United States Capitol to a public high school–do the members of the Senatorial Football Team steal the lunch money of the members of the Congressional Chess Club?–but I suppose there are various “caucuses”–the Soybean Caucus, the Left-Handed Caucus, the Caucus of Representatives of States Whose Names Begin With the Letter “M”–so I guess a “Prayer Caucus” is also kosher. However, passing Congressional Resolutions makes it an official function of Congress. Congress is not a church or a religious congregation, it’s one of the principal branches of the United States government.
As an atheist, I feel there should be neither prayers nor blow jobs in the whitehouse/senate/house of reps. Or in Ashcroft’s office for that matter. Prayer is very much like a blowjob - do it in private, and don’t force others to join if they don’t want to. Don’t force them to watch, either.
The irony is that it’s the religious people who don’t believe in blowjobs. Non-reproductive sex. Evil sodomy. Going to hell. Gonna burn.
As an atheist, I say do whatever you want in private, as long as it is consensual and not with children (they can’t consent). The same goes for prayer. Do it in private, make sure the people you do it with consent (don’t spiritually rape them by forcing them to pray along with you), and kids cannot consent to prayer - so don’t force your religion on your child until he/she reaches the age of 18. Then you can start telling him/her about jesus…
I am an atheist and I used to be a member of the Madison-based “Freedom From Religion Foundation”, and I went to their convention one year. There was a lot of open contempt for religion expressed, and while I personally agreed with much of what was said, I thought it was a terrible political tack for such an organization to take. They should be working with Muslims and Jews to stop public spending on Christian displays, and with Christians and Muslims if there is public spending on Jewish displays, etc. Instead, FFR sneers at them all, and lots of people around here hate them.
Back to the central thread… I believe Congress has a paid Chaplain, and I saw a post in a state of Wisconsin jobs listing for a christian (specified as such) chaplain job at a state veteran’s hospital.
All our military services have paid chaplains, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the VA had a whole slew of them too.
I find this very disturbing, but I’m not quite ready to go out and march against it. If it ever got onto a ballot, I’d VOTE against it, and I’d lose.
The funny thing was, most people on the left side of the political spectrum, AFAICT, did have a problem with the White House BJs.
We didn’t, however, find them to be an offense of sufficient seriousness to require Clinton’s removal from office.
Ditto praying on the public dime. There’s a good argument that it constitutes establishment of religion, which as you know is a violation of the Constitution.
This may be true in this instance, or it may not. But if it is, I doubt that many people of any political persuasion think it’s of sufficient seriousness to require the removal from office of Sen. Clinton or Sen. Brownback.
Seems pretty consistent to me. OTOH, NaSultainne, you’re falsely equating offenses worth a brief complaint with those that seemingly rated an all-out effort to drive a high public official from office.
Thanks, RTF, for your spot on response to our one-trick pony of the moment.
I guess I should have put “office hours” in quotation marks. I am well aware of Congress’ irregular and flexible schedule. Another I was considering was this “event” was to be closed to the public. For some reason I would find it more offensive to bar the public from the Capitol rotunda in the middle of the day, than in the very early morning or late evening. Sorry if my desire for a concise OP led me to use imprecise language.
I am also aware of the existence of Congressional chaplains and the pervasive use of God language. That doesn’t mean I appreciate it or wish that type of thing expanded.
Anyone hear how this came off? Moost importantly, where do I find a list of attendees and participants?
