I think this is a very accurate surmisal for most people in the mainstream. For left wingers, who are legion on this board (personally, I identify as center-left BTW), it gets more complicated: they usually lean more toward condemning things culturally endorsed by white Westerners, and toward cutting major slack toward any practice endorsed by non-Westerners and particularly by Musims. But left wingers are also big on women’s rights (a value I share), so it gets tricky. With other issues where those two values come in conflict, they generally lean toward not condemning non-Western cultural practices, so I’m actually a little surprised we don’t see more of that on this issue.
But don’t Leftists also keep telling us that the USA needs to be more like Europe, particularly the Scandinavian countries? Doctors in Denmark have declared circumcision unethical. Not a wishy washy “we don’t recommend it”. A violation of the Hippocratic oath of “do no harm.”
Iceland has contemplated a ban. Doesn’t look like it will pass for now. But it’s a sign of progress that it’s even being talked about. The tiny Jewish community on the island completely freaked out and compared it to Nazi Germany, of course. :rolleyes:
As I said earlier, I don’t believe they can be separated. The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment won’t allow it. Even if you were completely indifferent to male suffering, and were concerned only with protecting girls, feminists may be faced with a choice: protect both, or protect neither. We don’t need to treat social justice like it’s a zero sum contest. It would be easy to pass laws that protect both sexes. Are you afraid that males are going to hog all the justice?
These are putting the cart before the horse. Most real people - as opposed to politicians, pundits, and Internet trolls - fall on the political spectrum because of their views, rather than the other way around. So unless they otherwise mention something about women’s rights, trying to be more like Europe by default, or positively mentioning Musims, I wouldn’t hazard a guess at how these issues would inform their views on non-medical child circumcision.
For instance I think we should be more like Europe’s health care system, not because it’s European but it works, and that doesn’t mean I endorse every single one of their medical practices either! To use an extreme example from the other side of the globe, I think we can also look at South Korea’s universal health care as yet more evidence that America should be pursuing it, but I don’t believe in Fan Death!
Male circumcision harms women too: according to a Danish study, women with circumcised partners are more likely to be sexually unfulfilled and experience pain during sex.
Eric Clopper, a Jewish man, was fired from his job at Harvard after giving a presentation “Sex & Circumcision: An American Love Story”. I’ll put the link in a spoiler box because it contains some mature content. It’s 2 hours and 10 minutes long.
If you want to know why more people aren’t speaking out on this, it’s because Intactivists hold a view that’s going to offend a lot of people in America today. Raising your voice on this issue can get you fired, and it can cause you to be estranged from your own family. Most people are employed “At will”. Your employer can fire you for any reason, or for no reason. Also, most Americans have minimal savings, and can’t come up with even $1000 dollars on short notice.
Then you can unite and develop therobots, to overthrow the system. since the last time you engaged on this crusade did not generate the answers you wanted from the actual respondents, it seems we have to endure another round of the preaching…
What? I can be fired for trying to talk about penises with co-workers and customers? I’m shocked! Imagine trying to talk at length about the sensitivity of my penis with a customer, then being cut short by the boss!
Heh. Thank you! 
Naw,
First, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone on this board who is gung-ho for circumcision. The most positive seem to hold the position “it’s not a big enough deal physically to outlaw it, since it’s very important for religious and cultural reasons to some people.” They typical response here from a circumcised man is “I wouldn’t do it to my kid, but I’m fine with my own penis.”
And it’s not even “type 1” that is like male circumcision. It’s type 1a. Type 1b (which the interwebs tell me is more common than type 1a, although perhaps that’s not true in Indonesia) involves chopping off the head of the clitoris. Like chopping off the head of the penis. Rather more extensive than male circumcision, as is done legally in the US. Then there are types 2 and 3 (again, my interwebs tell me these are more common than type 1) which involve excising the whole clitoris, or doing that and also removing a lot of the external labia and sewing everything shut.
If you can’t see that a type 3 FGM is a much more damaging procedure than a typical male circumcision… Well that discussion probably belongs in the pit.
I’m actually really curious what was done in the recent case that went to court. Because the actual facts seem relevant to me.
For those of us who aren’t interested in a 2 hour video about foreskins, I did some googling for a less biased site. And gee, I can’t IMAGINE why he was fired:
:dubious:
(Oh, did I mention he stripped down nude while doing this antisemitic ranting?)
Wow, I can’t imagine why a university might have fired him…
Oh, more on Mr. Clopper. Not only was it completely antisemitic and inappropriate, but it was also totally inaccurate.
And this is a guy who AGREES with the anti-circumcision movement. You’re definitely NOT helping your cause, Blalron. Quite the opposite.
I would rather have been molested by a pedophile as an infant. If my genitals were merely fondled, but not damaged. Maybe even a lubed digit in my anus. It still would have been monstrously evil, but I’d still have my whole body.
Et voilà, in all the equilibrium, what is needed to evaluate the demarche.
You’re not getting it, Czarcasm. I understand employers need to regulate how employees behave on the clock. But people can be fired for what they say off the clock. That’s the problem I have with at will employment.
I reviewed your linked article, and it does make some good points. I think Clopper may have gone a little bit off the rails with his Anti-Judaism.
I think it’s more useful from a strategic standpoint to focus on Doctors, not Mohels, because they perform the vast majority of circumcisions in the USA.
Oh wow, thanks! I’d forgotten those threads. Including testimony from a guy who was circumcised as an adult who who said “sex isn’t very different”.
There’s a difference between anti-semitism and criticism of the religion of Judaism. Many of the strongest voices in the Intactivist movement are Jewish themselves. They obviously don’t hate all Jews as a race.
I’m sorry you are unhappy with your body. I know you want every other circumcised man to be unhappy, too, but the facts are that most are fine with it. I suspect there are more constructive things you could do than dwell on your missing foreskin. Have you considered therapy?
I know you want to protect others from what happened to you, but you might want to start by healing yourself, first. And with today’s technology, this is a thing you can’t change. But you CAN change how you feel about it.
And on the “boys of the future” front, I think circumcision is becoming less common anyway, for an abundance of reasons.