Infantry cross training: how many weapons is a private taught to handle minimally? A Gunny?

Factual Questions
21

Based on tales from a friend who enlisted in 2006, went through basic training, and then got accepted to OCS (and subsequently deployed to Iraq in 2007-2008), he learned the following essential infantry weapons in basic training (he was a signals officer, so not a lot of other combat training):

[ul]
[li]M4 Carbine[/li][li]M249 SAW[/li][li]M240B machine gun (he said fun to shoot, but sucks balls to actually carry around in the field)[/li][li]M2 machine gun[/li][li]Mk-19 grenade launcher (in his opinion the coolest thing to shoot ever)[/li][li]M203 grenade launcher[/li][/ul]

I’m pretty sure he picked up the automatic pistol somewhere in OCS or BOLC; he carried a SIG P228/M11 during his deployment. He never mentioned shotguns at all- I don’t know if that’s because he was a pretty proficient user before enlisting, or because he didn’t get instructed in how to use them.

22

I was also a Navy Seabee (in the 1990- early 2000s era).

We were trained on the M16/M4, M60, M9, and M500 (shoulder and hip). As a Grenadier I was also trained in the M203.

Earlier in my Naval career I was an Aviation Ordnanceman and along the way I earned an Armorer NEC (Naval Enlistment Classification), which is sort of an “additional skill” course. It taught basic weapon repair and inspection and how to check weapons in and out of an armory, nothing in great detail.

23

How did I forget the 240B? :smack: Yes we have those. All the enlisted are cross trained on it although depending on ammo allocations they may not be able to fire when we have a crew served weapons day.

24

Loach, if I may ask, when you say “we have” is it correct to infer that my taxes are going to your current employer?

25

Because members of the aristocracy don’t have to soil their hands with heavy labor such as carrying the 240? : )

How many LAW and RPG-7 munitions did you get to shoot? You mentioned 5.56 rounds being freely available by the bucket, I presume it wasn’t the case for the bigger stuff.

Was the 52mm mortar this one?

How accurate did it get? Israel certainly seems to like mortars, it even puts them in MBTs.

26

I’m guessing the Predator SRAW (FGM-172 SRAW - Wikipedia) is on the syllabus for the younger generation.

ETA: The Wik says the only operators are the U.S. Marines. It’s a Lockheed-IMI production, although maybe IMI came onboard later. Obviously not every Israel developed weapon system is fielded locally, but I’m surprised this one isn’t.

27

Is this the weapon T2 hip sprayed at the cops, modified with the amazing never advancing ammunition rounds?

28

What your friend isn’t mentioning is that for all those weapons except the M4/M16, he probably only got to touch the hardware for a few minutes at most, and he got maybe one opportunity to fire it. Hardly a skill you’d want to rely on in battle.

29

No if I remember that was some form of minigun. The M240B is a belt feed 7.62 machine gun that replaced the old M60. The M60 was partially derived from the German MG42 used in WWII.

ETA: Yep minigun. In case you couldn’t figure it out those are usually mounted on aircraft or sometimes vehicles. You can’t carry one around.

30

Dug around.
The weapon: File:Minigun 2.JPG - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
From Internet Movie Firearms Database:
Airsoft handheld M134 Minigun with ‘Chainsaw grip’ to handle the recoil force. This variant was seen in Terminator 2: Judgement Day. This is an airsoft version which retains the half-circle attachment point for the M60 foregrip from Predator; the real T2 minigun did not have this - (fake) 7.62x51mm
The GE M134 “Hand Held Minigun” certainly gets around: M134 Minigun - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games

A jump to their T2 movie overview gets more details on the modifications made to som modified original.

(I forgot about that site when I asked.)

31

Oh, definitely. Except for the guys specializing in them, we fired one dummy round in Basic, no more. The IDF’s generosity with bullets did *not *extend to explosives.

Nope,this one. I think it was a licensed copy of the British L9A1 51 mm light mortar. Aiming it was more of an art than a science, seeing as it had no bipod or sights, but it was amazingly fast to deploy and fire.

I served in a transitional period for the Israeli infantry - we used a hodgepodge of different weapons from various periods, with new stuff coming in all the time. They’re a lot more streamlined and uniform now, with most of the stuff I learned to use obsolete.

32

[and a few other on this]

I ran into my friend the Leo Bloom-dubbed “Gunny.” He was a Master Gunnery Sgt. I don’t know what Loach’s “staff position for E-9” means, and downthread from there someone mentioned a kind of headquarters consultant on weapons (unless I’m confusing Army and Marines again)–but he never left the field from right up until, and into the fall of Saigon.

33

In my experience, a master gunnery sergeant wouldn’t go by “Gunny.” The equivalent would be “Master Guns.” Calling an E-9 “Gunny” would be a demotion.

Also, while “Gunny” is pretty universal some Master Gunnery Sergeants prefer to be addressed as such. Doubly so if your ass ranks lower than SSgt.

34

I was an Army infantryman in Vietnam, 1968 - 1969. I basic training, the only weapon we trained with was the M14. In AIT Infantry training after basic we trained with the M16 rifle, M60 MG, .50 cal MG, M79 Grenade Launcher, .45 Cal pistol, different types of grenades (frag, concussion, CS gas, etc) Claymore mines, LAWS, and some on the 81mm mortar. In actual use in the field in Vietnam, on the platoon level we always had mostly m16s, 2 or 3 M60s and Grenade launchers, Claymores and fragmentation and smoke grenades. The 50cals. mortars, and laws were usually left in a temporary company sized base camp.

35

There are E9 pay grade slots on staffs. Those troops work for a staff officer. There are also positions for the senior non-commissioned officer in a command. They work they directly for the Commander.

36

An infantry private in the US Army is trained on the following weapon systems:

M4 Carbine
M249 SAW
M240 Machinegun

On the following weapons, he is given familiarization training which includes assembly/disassembly, loading, firing, unloading, correcting malfunctions:

M2 .50 Cal Machinegun
MK19 Grenade Machinegun

Finally, he is given familiarization training on the follow weapons, which includes placing it into operation, firing, handing misfires, etc:

M67 Fragmentation Grenade
M136 AT4
M203 Grenade Launcher

On the following, he learns to set it up, employ it, recover it and fire it. He is given a live-fire demonstration, but does not fire it himself (though one or two will get to fire it as part of the demonstration).

M118 Claymore
Within the first year of being in his unit, he will most likely learn:

M9 Pistol
M500 Shotgun
M320 Grenade Launcher
Maybe the MK 48 Machingun as well.
Possibly the M72 LAW and M141 BDM.
If he is in a heavy weapons company, he would also learn the BGM-71 TOW and ITAS.

With increased rank, comes increased responsibility and experience with the weapons above. It generally doesn’t mean they learn about more weapons, they just learn more stuff about the same weapons and become more proficient.

37

Also, calling him “Top” may likely get your ass kicked. :smiley:

38

“TOP?!? DO I LOOK LIKE SOME KIND OF GODDAMN KIDS TOY TO YOU SON.” Once heard from an actual Army First Sergeant. I probably should have bolded instead of merely using all caps it to really capture the tone and volume.

39

When dealing with non-coms, addressing them by rank is always the best and safest choice, especially during basic training when they are looking for a reason to rip into you. When I went to basic at Ft. Leonard Wood, there were a few guys in my training unit who had been inducted as PFC’s. A couple of them tried to have a go at insisting the other trainees address them as PFC. Let us just say that the other trainees did not comply.

40

Bolded ellipsis mine.

How come the US Army procured the M141 BDM when it’s so similar to the HEDP variant of the M136 AT4 for bunker busting?

Can you give an idea of what more stuff means?

Do US Army infantry squads usually get designated marksmen? How about the platoon level? Nobody but the designated marksmen get training on the use of their weapon? A designated marksman rifle might just be a good quality assault rifle or battle rifle with a scope but I’d think that would require some specific training to leverage its potential. A scope doesn’t make the shooter more accurate by itself, after all.