Infantry cross training: how many weapons is a private taught to handle minimally? A Gunny?

Factual Questions
1

Spun off from thread on how well a pilot of jet x can fly jet y (How hard is it to fly--at least take off and land--a military/civil jet if you' we never flow it? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board).

I’ve read many accounts of bravery when a rifleman will take over a SAW or heavier weapon where the crew has been disabled.

And I’ve seen in movies (most dramatically) in Saving Private Ryan, where a rifleman is ordered to take over a half-track mounted machine gun.

A) What is the training philosophy/actual requirements or pedagogy on the soldier’s knowledge and use of weapons?

B) Is it a requirement in rank promotion?

My understanding is that a Gunnery Sgt. Is top dog NCO partly because he earned his title: he “knows” many many weapons. So for him too (as well as privates), what does that “knowledge” entail?

I mention Gunny welcoming discussion of how the “rank||weapons knowledge” relationship holds. I’m assuming the cross-training level of knowledge for infantry NCO differs than that of a Colonel and his knowledge of the assets under his command.)

Field repair? Best use? What weapons are under his purview as a whole?

2

Gunny is strictly a Marine rank. And it is a rank. It has nothing to do with their knowledge level. A Gunnery Sergeant is an E-7. Equivalent to an Army Sergeant First Class. There are Gunnery Sergeants who work in supply and personnel and many other support roles.

Gunny is not “top dog.” That rank is usually a platoon sergeant. There is also a Master Gunnery Sergeant who is an E-9. It is a staff position for E-9s that are not Sergeant Majors.

As for weapons, everyone in a combat arms unit will have a working knowledge of the weapons used in the company. They are not that hard to learn. Some of the machine guns are a little tricky to take apart and put back together so you could forget but basic operation is not that hard.

3

We were taught M-16, M-60, M-2 .50 Caliber, M-3 Grease gun, M-203 grenade launcher, Hand grenades, and three types of mines.

I did not learn the TOW missile or mortars which were in our company, but not our platoon.

4

I am in a combat engineer company. We are National Guard so we don’t have the training time that active duty has. Even still all the troops are assigned the M4. In addition all are able to operate the M256, the M2, Mk19, M320 grenade launcher, M9 pistol and the old M500 shotgun. We just got in new M26 shotguns so no one is trained up on that. Those are just basic soldier skills. All the combat engineers also know how to blow shit up with explosives.

5

Thank you, and I’m sorry for the economy-size misinformation I posted/was carrying around in my head.

But that’s why this is the SD, right?

6

He’s thinking of “Gunner,” a customary title of a Marine Corps Infantry Weapons Officer. Gunner are Warrant Officers.

7

Yes that is the weapons specialist position the OP is thinking about. They are trained on all weapons.

related position…

8

I think I was thinking of Gunner. :slight_smile: I’ll contact my Marine friend in question who learned me it in the first place…

9

Gunners are warrant officers. They are staff officers who oversee the training plans of large units, battalion and above. The actual training is generally done by the NCOs in each unit. The Gunner is not typically the guy who is going to be training privates in a unit and he is not in a command slot.

10

No, a unit armorer in the Army is not equivalent to a Marine Gunner. The unit armorer is not a separate MOS. It is a 2 week school they go to as an additional skill identifier. Usually an E5 Sergeant. The armorer has little to do with training soldiers. They are in charge of physical security of the arms rooms, maintaining control of the inventory, organizing the weapons so they can be issued to soldiers quickly and efficiently and low level weapons maintenance. In the Marine Corps the Gunner may inspect each unit’s arms rooms but I doubt you will have one doing the drudge work.

11

Navy Seabee. Back in the day, and prior to deploying to RVN, we went through familiarization with the M1, M1 carbine, M14, 30 cal machine gun, M79 grenade launcher (prior to it’s being incorporated as part of the M203), and 45 pistol. We were showed a demonstration of the awesome destructive power of the 50 cal machine gun. And we all threw a grenade.

When I arrived in Vietnam, I was issued an M16, which I had never seen in my life.

Throughout my career, I also fired the M60 machine gun, the 9mm and a shotgun. But the weapon I was issued and that I carried and was qualified on was the M16. Even though they were part of the battalion arsenal, I never fired the 81mm mortar or the 106 recoilless rifle. E-7 and above usually carried a sidearm only, as they were usually directing fire and activity and not part of the defensive line unless absolutely necessary.

12

Does the US military still use flamethrowers?

13

I was also in the National Guard, but not in direct combat arms (a medic in a CAS unit). The only weapon I felt reasonably confident I could maybe hit a stationary target at up to 300 meters (on a good day) was the m16. They didn’t issue us M4s. We got to shoot some of the other weapons listed maybe once in basic training, enough that I guess if push came to shove and the Russians were invading we’d be able to pick up a weapon like that and fire it.

14

Weapons I received training in, to one degree or another, Israeli infantry basic training, 1993:

M-16, FN-MAG machine gun, Galil/AK, Uzi, grenades, M2 0.5" heavy machine gun, LAW missile, RPG-7 missile, M-203 grenade launcher, rifle grenades, 52 mm mortar.

15

Canadian military:
Riflemen know enough that they wouldn’t be confused if they needed to use an important weapon of their unit because its former user is unavailable. I doubt they could accurately fire a mortar though.

There is likely to be more emphasis on the light machinegun and the general purpose machinegun since those are arguably the most important weapons in infantry vs infantry fighting and machine gunners tend to attract fire.

If I may:

I’m familiar with the Canadian case but curious about other militaries.

How much ammo do ordinary infantrymen get to fire as part of their MG training? Is it mainly people who’ve taken a specialist course who get to use the LMG/GPMG?
How many rounds are fired in rocket launcher/AT4/recoilless rifle training?
Are ordinary riflemen trained to use the squad/platoon’s designated marksman rifle if it has one?

16

I’d say M9 pistol, MK19 grenade launcher, M249 squad automatic weapon, M4/M16 carbine/rifle, M240B machine gun, M203/M320 grenade launcher, M2 .50 cal machine gun, M500 shotgun

Those are some weapons systems I qualified on to prior to earning my stripes (Army)

rant:

[spoiler]In the Army, it’s a requirement as part of the promotion board to be knowledgeable on various weapon systems.

The soldier appearing for promotion approval stands in their dress uniform and answer questions.

Example question would be: what’s the maximum effective range of an M4 carbine at a point target? Which IIRC is 500m.

Then a few more chosen at random, so it would behoove one appearing at the board to know as much as possible about each. Other topics are covered as well-- land navigation, first aid, field sanitation, current events, and much more.

Anyways, long story short, it’s a requirement in the Army to be somewhat proficient and knowledgeable with weapons prior to being eligible for promotion.

In my old unit, a driver would carry a SAW and an M9 and a gunner would have their crew-served weapon mounted: M240B, MK19, or M2, as well as their M4 carbine and M9 .
Technically Their weapons qualification cards (they must be qualified in order to operate these weapon systems in theatre) dictate which weapons they are allowed to operate-- and which weapons they are allowed to operate is dictated by what their position is. I’m avoiding getting too jargony.

For example, the driver just so happens to have an active weapons qualification card on the M2/M240B, therefore he can change positions with the gunner if need be.

Most units try to train all of their soldiers on all of the weapon systems— SAW, M9, M4, and the crew-served. There can be ammunition restraints though (think of all the people who have to shoot two or three times just to qualify).[/spoiler]
If shit hits the fan, nothing too terrible should happen if someone without an active weapons qualification card fires a weapon system in an emergent situation-- unless friendly fire or civilian casualties took place… some wrist-slapping* would probably happen after the fact.

17

Oops, I meant to make it my main point that soldiers are for the most part, trained on all of the weapon systems.

However, a lot of times, not all of them are qualified to operate all of the weapon systems in theatre.

Qualification entails going to a range and scoring this many shots, in this much space, this far away, during this much time, under these circumstances.
They’re not *technically supposed to fire a weapon that they do not have an active weapons qualification on.

(This is how it is supposed to work)(Army at least)

18

Nobody is flamethrower certified?

19

I don’t think flamethrowers have been used since Korea.

20

Things like this have replaced flamethrowers.