Infinity war 'seen it' thread (spoilers)

[Mtgman]

@tavalla

I saw a comment elsewhere online pointing out that Strange sat through 14 million versions of the fight and they only won one - then he didn’t stop Quill from punching and waking Thanos, and gave up the Time Stone to save Stark.

The guess is that the fight he went ahead to see the end of wasn’t just the punch-up with Thanos on Titan - it was the overall war. Because of what he saw, he knew that, whatever happened, they’d lose the fight on Titan, but there was a way to win the overall war

In the Dr Strange movie the Ancient One explicitly says she can’t see past the point of her own death. Since Strange got dusted that means he can’t have seen past his dusting to a overall end of the war. They blew their wad then and there. Thanks Quill!

@outlierrn

I have no idea, but with a time stone in play it might not matter. One of Strange’s 14 million rolls could’ve required changing the opening moves to set up a different endgame. AIUI, that’s something Strange would normally be reluctant to do, but now…

Once you bring in time travel then you can do things like go back and strangle Thanos in his crib, or just hand his daddy a condom 9 months earlier if you want to be humane. For obvious reasons(the undoing of Gamora and the whole “Thanos gives Loki the scepter with the Mind Stone to kick off Avengers 1” et. al.) this doesn’t happen. It’s just too messy.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Jophiel]

@Mtgman

In the Dr Strange movie the Ancient One explicitly says she can’t see past the point of her own death.

Ah, but can you see past your own death if you’re to be later resurrected? If it’s a Monday and you’re set to be dead on Tuesday but alive on Thursday, can you see Friday?

[simster]

@Jophiel

Ah, but can you see past your own death if you’re to be later resurrected? If it’s a Monday and you’re set to be dead on Tuesday but alive on Thursday, can you see Friday?

jesus, what a question…

[outlierrn]

@Jophiel

Ah, but can you see past your own death if you’re to be later resurrected? If it’s a Monday and you’re set to be dead on Tuesday but alive on Thursday, can you see Friday?

Hmm, interesting pt, but then are the events of Wednesday a blank?

[Jasmine]

Was Thanos proven right?

Our heroes had a great plan, and it looked like it was just about to work. They had him all tied up, and they almost had the glove off. Suddenly, Star-Lord arrives! That should do it, right? No, instead of helping his cohorts finish the job, he throws a temper tantrum when he finds out Gamora’s fate and ruins everything.

Isn’t that Thanos’ point, that humans are incapable of making the tough decisions that will ensure their survival and that of the planet because their personal needs and desires are more important to them than the overall good? It’s like we basically defeated ourselves and proved him justified in his thinking.

Perhaps I’m reading more into it than I should, but I found it very ironic.

[AlsoNamedBort]

@Jasmine

Isn’t that Thanos’ point, that humans are incapable of making the tough decisions that will ensure their survival and that of the planet because their personal needs and desires are more important to them than the overall good? It’s like we basically defeated ourselves and proved him justified in his thinking.

It’s a recurring theme throughout the movie. Loki, Gamora, and Strange all gave up stones trying to save someone. Wanda could have destroyed the mind stone much earlier but only waiting until there was no other way. Thanos was the only one willing to put the overall good (in his opinion) ahead of himself (his love for Gamora).

[k9bfriender]

@outlierrn

Hmm, interesting pt, but then are the events of Wednesday a blank?

Not if someone kept records and gave them to you on Friday.

[Human_Action]

@bucketybuck

Gamora’s actions made no sense whatsoever, they just didn’t. I can see her feeling an obligation to stop Thanos but here is the thing, she never at any point had the means to stop Thanos, and she would have known that more than anybody.

I’m serious, her plan to stop Thanos involved running up to him with a sword and thats probably because running up to him with a sword is all that she could do. And as somebody who had been around Thanos all her life she would have known damn well how useless running at Thanos with a sword would be.

So she wants to stop Thanos, and feels an obligation to stop Thanos. But she is also conscious that she knows where the Soul stone is, that Thanos is now collecting the stones and that he must never get that information. She feels so strongly that he must never get that info that she wants her boyfriend to kill her should it ever look like happening.

Nope. People can fan wank all they want but Gamora should never and would never have sought out Thanos in those circumstances.

Nebula infiltrated Thanos’ ship and tried to kill him, and per Thanos, nearly succeeded. Granted, Thanos-with-2±infinity-stones is a different kettle of fish, but Gamora killing Thanos with a sword isn’t unthinkable.

[Lantern]

On thinking about the film a bit more I think it should have been divided into at least two parts. There were just too many characters and plot lines and the film couldn’t do full justice to them. The first film could focus on exploring the back story between Thanos and Gamora and ending with her death. The second film could focus on the attack on Wakanda.

[cmkeller]

mtgman:

In the Dr Strange movie the Ancient One explicitly says she can’t see past the point of her own death.

Was that necessarily with the time stone/Eye of Agomatto? Maybe she meant that her own magical powers don’t enable that. Maybe with the time stone it is possible to see/travel forward in time beyond the point of one’s own death.

[bucketybuck]

@Human_Action

Granted, Thanos-with-2±infinity-stones is a different kettle of fish, but Gamora killing Thanos with a sword isn’t unthinkable.

In response have a quote from this very thread.

@AlsoNamedBort

I mean, Thanos with just a power stone took down, Heimdall, Thor, Loki, and Hulk.

Go go Gamora I guess.

[Reluctant_A]

@cmkeller

mtgman:

Was that necessarily with the time stone/Eye of Agomatto? Maybe she meant that her own magical powers don’t enable that. Maybe with the time stone it is possible to see/travel forward in time beyond the point of one’s own death.

It’s canon in the comics that the Time Gem… err, Stone, can do exactly this, so it’s likely that the Ancient One was talking about her own mystical abilities. Either that, or the writers of the movies are being inconsistent about how powerful the Gems… sorry, Stones, are.

[Omniscient]

@Lantern

On thinking about the film a bit more I think it should have been divided into at least two parts. There were just too many characters and plot lines and the film couldn’t do full justice to them. The first film could focus on exploring the back story between Thanos and Gamora and ending with her death. The second film could focus on the attack on Wakanda.

I usually don’t love artificially expanding scope (looking at you Hobbit) but for this one I actually would have been on board with it. Ideally they would film them all at once if possible.

In Part 1, start with a Thanos, Thor, GotG and Collector story that focuses on Thanos’s backstory plus him getting the Space, Reality and Soul stones and killing Loki/Gamora. Gamora’s death is the climax with Strange/Stark/Spidey waiting in ambush for Thanos on Titan as cliffhanger.

Then Part 2 would be Thanos wiping out the Nova Corps to get the Power stone in the cold open, fighting Strange/Stark on Titan and taking the Time stone, before heading to Earth to smack down Wakanda and take the Mind stone.

Part 3…is whatever it is. That when you finally get everyone on screen at once.

Disney likes money, so I can only imagine that the issue was contracts with the big actors, but they could have basically omitted Cap, T’Challa, Black Widow, Bucky and maybe Vision/Scarlett Witch from Part 1. Then Loki & Gamora are dead in Part 2 and maybe you downplay the GotG’s involvement on Titan. Strange, Stark, Spidey and maybe Thor would have to do quite a bit of lifting in both movies I suppose, but collectively it would only amount to 1 movie’s worth of call times.

Maybe something like this:
Part 1 - Act 1: Thanos attacks and wipes out the Asgardians. Black Order descends on earth and tries to take the Time Stone.
Part 1 - Act 2: Thanos backstory. GotG and Thor meetup. Ebony Maw dies. Thanos beats the Collector.
Part 1 - Act 3: Gamora dies, Thanos gets the Soul Stone. Strange/Stark/Spidey set up shop on Titan.

Part 2 - Act 1: Black Order lays siege to Wakanda. Thanos destroys Xandar and gets the Power Stone. Thor tries to make Stormbreaker.
Part 2 - Act 2: Thanos gets jumped but eventually wins the Time Stone. Black Order breaks through at Wakanda.
Part 2 - Act 3: Thor is revived and appears on Earth to rout the Black Order. Thanos shows up, lays waste, kills Vision and takes the Mind Stone. Snap.

This gives us a chance to see what happened on Xandar and Knowhere which is nice. The battle of Wakanda has time to breathe a bit. Thanos gets a full backstory and a motivation that maybe makes a little more sense. We see Thanos get all the infinity stones and we can show each one’s power up. We have time to internalize Gamora’s death before the Snap™. Perhaps the biggest weakness to this is that Part 2 - Act 3 might be a little light unless Thanos decides to drag the fight out. You could move the meat of the Battle of Wakanda to Act 3 and extend the battle on Titan or something, but there’s plenty of stuff there. Maybe the first Hulk/Thanos fight happens in Act 3.

Anyways…good idea.

BTW, I haven’t noticed it mentioned here yet but Adam Warlock is definitely making an appearance in the finale. Somehow he and Captain Marvel must team up, maybe that explains where Captain Marvel has been for the last 20 years.

[SlackerInc]

I like your ideas!

[MrDibble]

@cmkeller

it would be extremely out of character for Thanos to have left it in place rather than cracked open the casing and filled the first hole in the gauntlet with it.

Did he already have the gauntlet?

[Alessan]

@MrDibble

Did he already have the gauntlet?

No, he only made it after the fall of Asgard.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@bucketybuck

In response have a quote from this very thread.

@AlsoNamedBort

I mean, Thanos with just a power stone took down, Heimdall, Thor, Loki, and Hulk.

Go go Gamora I guess.

Yeah, but don’t gloss over that; how did he take down Loki? Which is to say, what was the plan that Loki actually thought would get the job done?

Near as I can tell, Loki honestly believed a quick blade to the throat would do it; and Thanos, who saw it coming, stopped it ahead of time instead of letting it happen and then shrugging it off. And, likewise, when Gamora got fooled by that illusion, the fact that Thanos was using an illusion kind of has to matter — or else why go through the whole bit where Gamora gets off what looks like a kill shot before revealing that he’d been standing way the heck over there the whole time?

And then, when Thor finally shows up to put a blade into Thanos — well, Thanos sees it coming, and Thanos tries to intercept it; and, yeah, the ‘mighty superhero’ part is that the blade ignores those active defenses before it sinks into the guy. But isn’t the point that, if Thanos doesn’t see it coming, then there would be no active defenses and he’d just get the should’ve-gone-for-the-head shot despite having the Stones?

[SlackerInc]

So even all the stones don’t give him super-level invulnerability? What about all his seemingly unnecessary punching? He seems like more than Molecule Man (comics reference).

[silenus]

@Omniscient

BTW, I haven’t noticed it mentioned here yet but Adam Warlock is definitely making an appearance in the finale. Somehow he and Captain Marvel must team up, maybe that explains where Captain Marvel has been for the last 20 years.

Marvel and the directors swear that’s not happening. No Adam Warlock. Period.

Take that with however much salt you need.

[muldoonthief]

@Alessan

No, he only made it after the fall of Asgard.

Except that Thanos had it way back in the mid-credits scene after Age of Ultron. Here’s an article where Russo at least implies Eitri built the gauntlet years ago.