insomnia/appetite problems? related?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’ve had insomnia for a very long time, mostly due to severe anxiety, that “can’t shut my worrying/obsessing brain off” thing. There were times when I wouldn’t fall asleep until 8 or 9 in the morning for weeks at a time–but as I wasn’t much participating in life, I could go ahead and sleep 8 hours anyways. It sucked, but at least I was getting some form of rest. Most of the problem was a compulsive internet/reading thing. I just couldn’t quit.

Now I’m back in school, finishing up my final semester of undergrad, and I do have morning classes most days. For some reason my anxiety has been raging out of control lately. I used to have an old trick called “Take Tylenol PM” – but that’s not even fazing me right now. For about two weeks straight, I have consistently gone to bed like a good girl, tossed and turned and worried (state of the union? check. dying in an airplane? check. comet hurtling out of nowhere and obliterating the planet? check, check, check), only to drag myself out of bed after two hours of just lying there, and trying to “do something” – which usually means I’m back to the old “compulsive internet” drawing board.

The problem is, I have to drag myself out of bed each morning anyways, regardless of what sleep I lost, and try to get through classes. I’ve missed a few anonymous morning STATS lectures already from this, but I can’t very well miss all of them. And for some reason, no matter how exhausted I am, the same pattern repeats itself over again. Sometimes my exhaustion lets me fall asleep within an hour, but then I wake up two or three hours EARLY! So I have consistently slept about 5-6 hours a night for two straight weeks (I realize some people do this all the time with no problem-- that’s not me. I’m a wreck missing one hour less than 8. I NEED to sleep!) At this point I am exhausted, my nervousness is GREATLY increased because of my lack of rest, my muscles are sore and I can’t think straight. It’s awful.

I’m also not eating anything–well not nothing, but maybe the equivalent of one or two meals a day–it varies. It’s not on purpose, I assure you. The problem is I’ll be starving, take four bites and be full/nauseated. I’m not going to cram more food down my throat if I feel it’s going to make me SICK, for goodness’ sake. It doesn’t help that I get sick almost every time I eat (not a new thing–been that way for several years.) The difference lately is just that I used to eat a regular amount of food regardless of it making me sick afterwards. Now I’m often hungry, but whenever I DO eat I get almost instant signals of “Okay, time to stop now.”

So I guess what I’m trying to say is, I’ve had insomnia on and off for years, I’ve had problems with food consistently for years, but there is a qualitative difference lately in both. The insomnia is more persistent/resistant to sleep aids and for some reason I’m eating portion sizes of next to nothing. I mean I can fill a bowl with cereal, sit down, take three bites and be completely full. Then I usually get sick within the next hour. I lost 45 lbs in two months and seem to still be dropping. But I DID go off some meds right before that, that I’d been on for years… it could be anything that caused the weight loss, or a combination of things. I’m just trying to point out how much less I EAT now.

Tonight… well Christ, tonight I’m just screwed. I’m having oral surgery tomorrow to get my wisdom teeth removed. I don’t see how I could POSSIBLY be expected to relax in this case… and I’m not allowed to eat anything, either!

So please, fellow Dopers. Has anyone been through this? Has anyone out there successfully conquered the beast of insomnia? Is there a possibility the two things could be related? I’ve been eating less longer than I’ve been suffering this new wave of insomnia. I’ve tried to go to doctors in years past… I don’t know how many people realize how impossible it is to have a medical condition taken seriously by a doctor when you have any mental health record. Most doctors take one look at my chart, pat me on the back and say, “You really should talk to your therapist.” (Well, I have to be fair… if it’s a CAMPUS doctor, there’s also the “Let’s test you for mono” response. :rolleyes: )

2

I’ve had terrible insomnia for years. I’d be dead tired all day, but around 10PM become wide awake. I’d be physically tired, but my mind would be racing. I could also sleep for about 10 hours once I did finally manage to shut my brain off.

About a year ago, I finally figured out what the problem was. I had a few weeks off of nothing to do, so I shut myself in my apartment with a copy of World of Warcraft and basically lived on how my body told me to. I ate when hungry, slept when I felt I had to, etc.

I found that my internal clock runs on a 34 hour day, give or take. It’s the craziest thing, but I am amazingly functional by sleeping 10 hours and being awake for 24, and rotating that schedule. I suppose one of these days some sleep therapist will write a book on it or something, and I won’t feel as alone. Does this have some sort of name?

And if that isn’t similiar to the OP at all, my apologies.

3

Sorry to hear of your troubles, olives. I have occasional anxiety-induced insomnia and an unreliable appetite, though nothing as extreme as what you describe.

For the unsettled stomach, nothing beats ginger tea (1 part warm milk + 1 part hot water + a sizeable lump of moistened sugar mashed up with powdered ginger) and bland food. But if even cereal is too much for you, that sounds serious and may warrant more persistence with your doc.

For the insomnia, I’ve found that audiobooks at bedtime are an Ogsend. If I am tired at all, they provide just the right enticement to the warm abandon of sleepy imagination, fading into slumber. A bit of exercise an hour or two before bed guarantees this method for me.

If you are really adventurous and want to tackle both the insomnia and anxiety in one go, you might try listening to Epictetus’ “Art of Living,” a collection of charming and practical Stoic wisdom. The version available at audible.com is quite good. We are anxious because we fear we will not be able to handle surprises, but we are nonetheless surprised by things and tend to do just fine. Epictetus gives varied, delightful, and convincing expression to the simple notion that it is best not to worry about things we can’t control, and I can’t recommend him highly enough. (But do try to get an unbowlderized version: many of the translations from the Greek make him sound like a Disciple.)

4

olives, can you nap? My uncle has slept in two chunks for decades. I also need my beauty sleep and I’ve found out that sometimes when I’m mega-tired I just lie down and get up after 5-30 min completely energized. Other times I open an eye because I needtopeenow and it’s 6 hours later, but this only happens if I’ve really overdone things.

Can you give that a try?

5

Can’t really help you with the sleep, but it fou are so upset about the lack of nutrition, the answer is fairly easy.

Meal replacement bars. Dried fruit, nuts, jerky. Trail mix. Whenever you are hungry, try to eat your meal. After you stop after a few bites dont worry. Go about your day. When you get hungry again, nibble as much of a bar as you can, or the trail mix, nut, fruit,jerky. Take a multivitamin if you are worried about nutritional content.

After things settle, you can start eating real meals again.
See a damned doctor. Anxiety based insomnia does respond to the new run of sleep aids. Go to a yoga class and learn to do the whole muscle release thang and meditate. [you know, tighten and loosen muscles in series until the whole body is relaxed. It works.]

6

I’m the same way! It’s an evil way to be.

7

I’ve found that periods of anxiety give me insomnia and kill my appetite. I usually cycle through it. But if you feel it’s gotten out of hand, you might want to talk to your doctor regarding anti-anxiety meds or non-medicinal techniques for reducing your anxiety.

Your statement about being awake worrying about the state of the union… that struck a chord with me. I’ve found that lately I’m very stressed out about the state of the whole fucking planet. Logically, I realize that there’s not much little ol’ me can do about most of it and I think that just adds to it. It ebbs and flows, so I tend to just kind of wait it out.

8

When I have been in full panic mode, I can’t sleep because of waves of panic attacks, and I can’t eat either. Anything I would try to eat I either threw up or pooped out. For some years it would only be that bad for maybe a week at a time and then something would change enough to ease the panic. But when it didn’t go away for weeks I did seek help and got sedatives that allowed me to rest and think about things more reasonably.

I used Ensure to at least get some nutrients in my system.

9

I was having a getting to sleep problem due to anxiety some years back & I discussed it with my doctor. I could cope fine during the day, but as soon as I tried to sleep, all my problems large and small would buzz around in my brain, my heart would pound. She prescribed me some trazadone. It’s an old anti-anxiety med. They don’t use it much for its original purpose because it doesn’t work for everyone (does anything?), or last a long time, plus it has the side effect of severe drowsiness for the majority of people who take it. Voila! Takes the edge off of anxiety, makes you sleepy, wears off in a few hours, but by then you’re over the initial falling asleep problem. For me it’s great. No morning lingering sleepiness. And it’s not addictive. Times when I don’t care if I fall asleep or not, like when I’m on vacation, I don’t bother with it. Obviously YMMV, consult your own doctor, etc.

10

Try searching for “Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome”, but my doc referred to it as “phase-shifted sleep syndrome”.

11

I don’t have much to offer by way of advice other than you might experiment with shifting your schedule around so that you sleep after you get home–right after your classes. I’ve done that before, put the work or class or something at the end of the day rather than the beginning. It works for me.

12

I’ve wrestled with the “my sleep schedule differs from the rest of the waking world” issue, but for a long time I was able to tame my habits to match my husband’s – 11pm sleep, 7am rise. I used to take trazadone for sleep, but it messed me up pretty badly so it was short-lived. I was on other meds that were both for anxiety, nightmares, and sleeping–took those for several years, went off in August. So for much of the past 6 years, I’ve had a pill to put me to sleep. I don’t have that any more.

Huh, this is interesting. Someone in my “I just got my wisdom teeth out” thread suggested an infection might be causing these problems with my appetite, and my anxiety about the procedure causing my insomnia. Sure enough, when I had the surgery yesterday, they did find some infection, so now I’m on antibiotics (unfortunately, I’m still not sleeping… I got 7.5 hours last night with the aid of the pain meds, but it was definitely interrupted sleep.) Time will tell regarding the appetite–I’m currently starving but unable to open my mouth up enough to swallow something substantial.

I’m going to run through the antibiotic cycle and if there isn’t any improvement in my appetite, I’m going straight to the doctor. This has truly gotten a bit ridiculous, that I’ve let it go on six years. I have “doctor-avoidance” syndrome typically. Mostly, because I said before… it’s hard to be taken seriously with any kind of mental health record… and I have the unfortunate distinction of having been hospitalized (though it was over 4 years ago) for said mental health issues, so they generally look at my chart and go, “Oooh, your stress and anxiety must be causing this. Go talk to your therapist, dear.” They generally won’t even entertain the possibility that they’re something physically wrong. I went to a doctor once because I was having episodes of DEAFNESS and she told me to take SUDAFED and see my therapist.

I recently got my own Primary Care Physician though, and I like her very much because she is not patronizing and she spent a full half an hour with me on our last visit. It shouldn’t be too much of a thing to get up the courage to see her.

13

I’d recommend seeing a doctor. Most of your issues can be medicated, if you choose. Both the anxiety and the sleep. I went through a horrible period of insomnia right around the New Year - since I’m a sleep reliabily for 8-9 hours a night person, it was really bad.

There are a few other things you can try, if you aren’t ready for the medication route. Valarian is calming and you can get it at a health food store or a drug store (it will be in with the herbal medication). Some people have great luck with melatonin - seems to work fairly well for me - won’t knock me out, but it does make me sleepy when I want to be.

Perscription sleeping pills work differently for different people. I find Ambian to induce the sleep of the damned. Its better than not sleeping at all, but the hangover sucks. Its probably best not to take hypnotics if you live alone - but talk to your own doctor (people do weird things on hypnotics - eating in the middle of the night seems to be the most common - but driving in the middle of the night isn’t unheard of, nor is drinking - neither which is really safe when you aren’t truly awake. If its anxiety, its likely the doctor will want to treat that first, then worry about the sleeping if that doesn’t come around.

Whatever you do, my own advice is not to do it EVERY night. Use it to get a good nights sleep on occation. Sleeping pills can be addictive - and you don’t want to go there - and their side effects can suck. I wouldn’t do anything herbal or the over the counter melatonian or the Tylenol PM every night either. Especially with anxiety, its easy to start psyching yourself out over not being able to sleep without the meds. (Tylenol PM is tylenol with benedryl in it. Its the bendryl that is making you sleepy. Tylenol can be hard on your liver - especially if you drink - if you don’t have pain, just take a sleeping aid without the Tylenol)

I’d also recommend trying to manage any pain you have. I had shoulder pain - which got worse when I didn’t sleep, and then the worse pain made it harder to sleep. A chiropractor and going back to the PT exercises I had a few years ago for the same pain have helped a lot.

Disclaimer:
I’m am not a doctor, merely someone who has been recently treated for insomnia. See your own doctor.

14

I know… I used to take medication for these things… one of them was an atypical antispychotic for treating PTSD. I chose to go off of it because I was doing so well, and I really don’t feel like being dependent on meds forever, if I can help it. I thought of being on meds as having training wheels… there would come a time when the wheels had to come off and I had to learn to ride on my own. My body takes medications pretty hard, especially with side effects. When I went off the meds, I lost 45 lbs and I felt a lot more energy and the need to eat less (though that has admittedly gotten out of control.) I really felt more competent and in control off the meds than on them… so I’d like to maintain that, if I can.

I think I am willing to try a medication solely for sleeping – obviously something less powerful than an antipsychotic–someone else recommended Unisom. I think your advice to do the same thing every night is going to be crucial for me. I need to establish a routine and stick with it. I really appreciate the advice… I am convinced now that seeing a doctor will be best.

15

Hey olives, I just noticed you are only about a stonesthrow from me here in Lansing. If you’re up all night, feel free to give me a hollar. I can’t sleep either, I’ll be up.

16

I’m the one that said that your loss of appetite could possibly be the result of the infection just because I had an infection when I had my wisdom teeth out also. But IANAD, and I sure wasn’t saying that in lieu of you going to a doctor. So yes, seeing doctors and other professionals is a good idea, as you deem appropriate.

Having said that, and just based on what you’ve written here, I do have another WAG about what may be causing some of your disconcerting feelings. Just from reading message boards and the like, I’ve noticed that people on the verge of finishing school can often go through some very scary feelings. When people are looking out toward the unknown, it can sometimes look daunting unless you have a plan and a direction. This may not apply to you, but I thought I’d throw it out there in case it rings any bells with you.

17

Hypo/hyper thyroid can lead to insomnia and loss of appetite. I experienced both before I had half my thyroid removed because I had a nodule on the left side.

That being said, after getting checked out by a doctor, I’d recommend regular aerobic exercise. Fatiguing your muscles, including the old ticker, in my experience, is a great antidote for depression and anxiety. The more sedentary I am, the worse my insomnia gets. First thing in the morning, get up and take a brisk walk or a jog. Oxygen and sunlight are essential for good health. I would advise against exercising within 5 hours of your normal bedtime because the adrenaline might interfere with your sleep.

Lifting weights is also a great for getting out your frustrations in a healthy way. Yoga is great for relaxing. Stretching and breathing and learning to center yourself are skills you can use in all kinds of situations.

Finally, 6 hours of sleep may be adequate for you. Don’t use prior experience as a gauge because you’ll probably need less sleep as you age.

18

I’m not someone who’s ever had insomnia or any anxiety-related problems, but during the last few months I’ve found that my appetite is dropping away to almost nothing. Some days I have one meal, occassionally two, but I had a period over Christmas when I was eating about a meal every two days. I just was not hungry, and eating anything made me nauseated sometimes.

My doctor suspects it might just be stress, because you apparently find a strong correlation between stress and lack of appetite. I just throw it up as a possibility. Usual disclaimers apply.

19

I don’t have much to add beyond what others have suggested, but I have to say that I completely understand what you are saying here. It is frustrating and disrespectful, but it happens just as you describe it. (Just as bad, my former clients who are developmentally disabled who would get these doctors who wouldn’t take them seriously because they’re, you know, retarded.) It’s great to have a doctor that you trust and who feels like a clean start for you. I would also suggest that saying something like, “I am willing to entertain the idea that this might be related to my mental health IF tests and examinations rule out physical causes first” might help if you find yourself being treated that way again.

20

Thanks, I appreciate it. I’ve got a good plan… I’m married, we’ll be applying to grad school this Fall. I was supposed to graduate in '05 but I had to take time off school… this is a long time coming for me. I’m excited, and yes, I’m also terrified because life is scary and unpredictable. I am trying to keep in mind that everyone experiences this fear, it’s not necessarily because of anxiety disorders, it’s just a coming of age thing I suppose. But I don’t think I could try to plan things any better than I already have. I’ve got my ducks lined up, but there will always be uncertainty.

This is diverging a bit, but I get tired sometimes, of there always being something to deal with. I can only compare it to running a marathon. There are so many times I’m just dying to stop, and it seems like too much… but I can’t really stop at all, have to keep going if I want to get where I’m going. If you’ll excuse a bit of whinging, it feels really unfair and painful at times. I just want to relax for once…