I am in the process of finishing off my garage. I insulated the walls and hired someone (a reputable local company) to blow the insulation into the Atic… which they did. I requested R40 insulation and the invoice that I recieved yesterday stated R40 as well.
Well, I looked up into the atic and I’d say the insulation is only about 4-5 inches deep for the most part… with the odd area probably around 8-10 against the edges. From what I can find for info on the 'net, For an R40 rating for blown insulation I need almost a full foot of loose fill insulation.
I don’t want to call these people and give them shit unless I know I am right. So, is it possible for this stuff to be R40 with the amount that I said is blown in? It is loose and brown colored… doesn’t seem to be exotic … Appears to be cellulose based.
There was a story about this on Dateline about this: http://www.msnbc.com/news/523773.asp#BODY It’s a long article, but worthy of the read, as it explains what happened, as well as what you can do about it.
For R40 I don’t see how you couldn’t have been shortchanged. I’d call 'em but bear in mind the owner may be a reasonable business person and the workers (insulation installers are usually fairly unskilled laborers) may be to blame. Thats not your problem but unless you just like fighting with people and litigating correcting the situation may be as easy as addressing it with the contractor. If they try to dodge you then you’re probably dealing with a ringer.
If you want to take the passive route first, you could call them up and tell them your looking into having insulation blowen into your attic, you like it to be R-40 etc etc… and ask them how thick it will be, if they say 12 inches or whatever, then say “Well that’s odd, I just had you guys come out here and fill my attic and it’s only about 4 inches deep and you said it should be xx inches deep, …” Then you can go from there, I personally like to play dumb “So did they run out of insulation and they’re coming back later” or something like that. Say whatever you want, once the person tells you it should be thicker then what you got, you’ve already proven that something was done incorrectly and you can go from there.
Don’t know what mineral wool or HD boards are, but fiberglass is another option. Bit more labor intensive, especially in small attics without a lot of room. Cellulose insulation is blown through a tube/hose and lands where you put it. It’s loose fill – like shredded rags (or really cheap stuffing). It’s very easy for do-it-yourself’ers; you can rent a machine for a couple of hours, buy bags of the stuff, blow it in, and get away dirt cheap. Or pay someone and get ripped off.
What type of material is it? Surely not the polystyrene balls used for retrospectively insulating cavity walls? Is it dry or wet? Does it solidify when set? Can you walk about in the attic after installation? What happens around light fittings in ceiling below? What happens at hatches / openings into the attic? What about electrics / plumbing running through attic?
Sorry for all the questions, I just have a hard time visualising this process, and how it could work. Thanks again.
Mineral wool (as from Rockwool ). High Density (HD) boards (as from Celotex )
Say you have spotlights in your ceiling…how can you stop the insulation from sitting on them, then burning / melting?
How does it not blow around when you open the access hatch? (Sounds very messy to me).
Sorry to bernse for the complete hi-jack, but the OP was answered already.
Basically, it can cover anything, including wires as long as they are not exposed. For safety sake, light fixtures should be enclosed in a special plastic “bag” so insulation can’t work its way in.
Its really a very effecient, cheap way to do it… unless you get ripped off
BTW - I went up last night and measured, its about 8 inches in most places, and 10 or so in the odd spot. So, I’m not getting raped but I would still like a couple more inches all around. I’ll call them today.
“Newer” homes here (and I am guessing it would be similar for the rest of of N.A, someone correct me if I am wrong) actually don’t have “walk around” attics anymore. Usually, its just a big, open space accessed via a hatch in the home/garage. A person can crawl up there if necessary, but its pretty rare. Its not like the “old” days where people would store lots of stuff up there and have a walking around area… at least not from what I have seen.
Although, I suppose a person could make a walking area and put stuff up there if they wanted. It wouldn’t be recomended with blow in insulation as it can be pretty messy and stick to you.
Hereis a chart showing insulation depth needed with cellulose insulation, which I have blown in before, and it’s exactly the color and texture as you described. 11.8 inches is required for R-40. I checked some other sites and none of them stated less than 12.
You’ve been ripped off. Somebody was trying to cut corners to save a buck
For more information, Google ‘cellulose insulation chart’ and print out some samples, they’ll have a tough time arguing against that.
I gave them a call. Spoke to the owner who genuinely said it was odd… he said they try to put 11" in. He is sending someone over to look at it. Its a pretty reputable company in my town, so I suspect they’ll be honest about it.
Maybe it was just an inexperienced crew that did mine in the first place?
Cellulose settles over time but not as much as you say. I would guess that the installers got lazy or maybe someone needs their own attic insulated. Maybe you donated a few bags.
Cellulose is sometimes blown into side walls. of existing homes. The effect of insulation in sidewalls is less than in the attic but if you have air movement in sidewalls the sidewalls need insulated.
As a one time insulation installer I can tell you its kinda hard to tell if you have left a flat surface or not. Its usually dark and always dusty and goggles get fogged over quite easily.
You say the insulation is piled up near the roof?
It should not touch the roof. You need air movement or you will have moisture problems.
They should have installed cardboard ot styrene “boards"along the rafters from the sidewalls to about 18” above the ceiling to keep insulation away from the roof.
Hope this helps
I put in baffles next to the roof when I built the inside ceiling. So no, its not touching. However, there is definetly more piled up there… probably about 12" deep or so… but there is still probably 6" (possibly more) to the roof from there at the edge, so I am not worried.
BTW - Lightstrand, interesting link:
I am however giving the company the benifit of the doubt on this one and I hope they’ll make it right. It sounds like they will.
