Well, what I know of Darren can only be probably whispered into a hole on the bank of the Pactolus river.
I saw Darren using sarcasm to point out a rather racist OP, not making an ethnic joke. I think that’s pretty common here when someone spots a poster making a not-so-subtle argument based on race or sex.
And I can understand not wanting mean-spirited ethnic jokes to be posted here, but if the rule is “no ethnic joke”, I’m wondering why this thread was allowed to exist just a few months ago. You moved it do different forum, so I’m sure you saw it.
Surely not. Are you suggesting that we can’t use satire to mock actual ethnic stereotyping?
Or are you just saying that’s where you wanted to guide this particular thread to prevent it going off the rails?
The latter. My mod note made it clear that in that thread ethnic stereotyping (either seriously or humorously) and voyeuristic posts would not be acceptable.
In my opinion the thread OP was not racial stereotyping. Not sure why you think the thread instructions for that thread was some new global rule. It’s not nearly as complicated a situation as all that.
Honestly, I find it perplexing that my mod note telling people to essentially keep the conversation devoid or racial stereotyping and voyeuristic comments is being criticized. The thread had possibilities and I’d rather give it a chance than shut it down. Not a single Warning was issued, but general guidelines for a successful thread was presented a a mod note.
The thread you linked was a joke thread. This thread was an attempt at a serious discussion. To directly compare the two and expect the exact same moderation is baffling.
#CancelGarrison
Can’t anyone here spell mysygyny correctly?
My tiny little data point: I read Darren Garrison’s comment as satirical. Based on comments by Darren and others in this thread, this is a correct reading and I was not the only one to read it as he intended. By satirizing the OP, he was poking fun at racial stereotyping and voyeurism.
So, if you don’t want to promote stereotyping and voyeurism, and he’s making fun of the same, shouldn’t you see yourselves as being on the same side?
Granted, the “buy yourself a sense of humor” comment might have been a little over the line, since it was directed at a mod. But it’s disheartening when moderators willfully refuse to understand perfectly reasonable, and reasonably clever, humorous remarks. This seems to be happening more and more often on this board, and it’s painful to watch.
I’ll reiterate my point one more time and then I’m not sure what else to say.
“Sides” have nothing to with it. I knew Darren’s comment was joke. That wasn’t the issue with it. I held it up as an example what should not be done in that thread, for any reason.
I was asking that ethnic comments, jokes or otherwise, be kept out of the thread. Serious comments, jokes, or satire that introduced or reinforced ethnic stereotypes had no place in that thread. I stand by that direction.
Mocking the OP using racist satire was not the solution- report a thread if you think there’s a problem.
And with this, I’m done saying the same thing over and over again.
Personally, I don’t see mocking stereotyping by making a highly offensive ethnic joke being the best way to deal with the issue.
Sure, being a dick to a mod earns a smack down, but:
Racist? Really? Like saying the Irish eat a lot of potatoes is racist.
Highly offensive ethnic joke? Is today silly hyperbole day?
You keep saying it was “racist satire,” but that only makes sense if you think he meant what he said. His post was anti-racist satire, because it mocks racism.
I agree his sass back was out of line. And I applaud you for not jumping to a warning, given the contentious issue. But continuing to assert he was being racist when he was being anti-racist is going to continue to cause people to object.
Also, what is the logic for not closing a thread when the OP admits they were deliberately being provocative, and has a history of posts just shy of the line? Why go out of your way to shut down any snark instead of just shutting down the thread? Or at least move it to GD, where contentious topics (e.g. those that touch on racism and sexism) are discussed?
To review, this was the hilarious and clever “joke” in question. Yeah, that’s different than saying that the Irish eat a lot of potatoes, and I think saying an ethnic group is a mass of parasites is pretty offensive.
If you want to insist on nit-picking, it was an over the top racist remark intended to mock racism. The intent doesn’t change the fact that the remark itself was racist.
Why are all the mods in this thread avoiding the OP? The thread should have been closed immediately. The OP should have been warned. His posting privileges should be being discussed in the mod loop right now.
IvoryTowerDenizen, you blew it. Can we throw out the who said what in response to the offense and concentrate on the offense itself? That some posters managed to post like adults is not mitigation. That other posters managed to get themselves in trouble responding to ludicrous provocation is on your head.
This. To let the OP slip by while coming down on a sarcastic response is ludicrous.
A minor point, but as a group, Dopers are pretty talented when it comes to the use of sarcasm and facetious humor. I’d think that in order to moderate on the Dope, one would have to be at least minimally competent in picking up on it. To me, Darren’s post #3 in the other thread was about as seriously intended as Jonathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal.” I mean, “30% parasites by mass”? C’mon. 
I think it’s absurd to suggest that people can’t help but be provoked, and the language you’re using here (“on your head”) makes it hard to take you seriously.
The mods in this thread are addressing the question raised by the OP of this thread, which is why an insult directed at a mod got a poster removed from a thread. You and others have strong opinions about when a thread should be closed versus when a thread may be and/or should be steered in a better direction than it started. You’re entitled to that opinion. We happen to disagree here, and IvoryTowerDenizen (as well as some of the participating posters) made an effort to make a useful discussion out of a poorly-laid-out OP.
If you think that’s the wrong course of action, you’re allowed to report it, you’re allowed to PM us, and you’re allowed to have conversations about it in ATMB. There’s been a lot of very positive and helpful discussion in ATMB about threads like this (which ITD has been a huge part of), and I would like to see that continue. Claiming that a moderator’s decision in that regard has somehow rendered people incapable of civil disagreement is folly, in my view.
Agree.
ITD already has explained, several times, that while the manner of the OP was (as admitted by the poster in the OP at least in regards to its title) inflammatory, the question itself a reasonable one and in fact had some reasonable responses.
She even began her mod action stating how wary she was … of both racial stereotyping and of deconstruction of women’s physiques, clearly to my read talking about both the OP and the responses to it. Her call was that with strict rails in place the thread could be given a chance.
Now I count myself on the side that felt the joke as a method of expressing an opinion that the op was engaging in stereotypes was a reasonable means of expression but her explanation is acceptable.
As far as the comments that the question itself (poorly framed as it was), of why it seems that young women who are from or live in an East Asian country tend to have less muscle mass than American young women do, is, in and of itself racist …
Well those in the thread who have spent time in Asia or who are part of families with Asian members all responded in a way that did see the question itself as out of line. (I don’t know if any of Asian descent themselves, especially women, actually responded though.)
It is simply true that different cultures and subcultures have varying physical ideals of beauty (true for both genders) and that different ethnic populations and subpopulations are prone to different body morphologies and growth trajectories.
Same here, unless I’m unaware of some sort of Asian tapeworm stereotype. It was clearly an absurd answer meant to mock the OP and the thinly-veiled “check out the hot asses on the girls in the OP” thread. Frankly, I’m stunned the thread remained open.
I’m certainly happy that I claimed nothing of the sort, in that case. What a totally bizarre reading.
I can’t go back in time and report the OP of that thread as trolling. But I think it was. So we now have a discussion of what is the proper procedure to deal with such a thread? I thought that such threads were closed and the OPs warned or at least noted.
What should not happen is that the OP is given a pass and a mod comes in to say, essentially, try to ignore the trolling and find a way to discuss this objectively. That’s entirely wrong and is entirely the fault of the mod. The only positive thing to say about that action is that I’m positive it’s a wonderful way to encourage more people to troll here.
ITD blew it. I’m not calling for her epaulets to be ritually torn off. Just not to do it again if similar attempts at trolling are made.