Im not referring to education or any knowledge that is learned. Im referring to basic IQ and ones ability to see the world around them. Such as, why do some people still believe in God and why is so clearly faux to the more intelligent people? Do you think this will ever change as we as evolve, or will the silliness continue through the ages? Religion doesn’t seem to be waining although I understand not nearly enough time has passed since its introduction to judge a boost of intellectual clarity in humans. I guess this is more of a request of your opinions, but a fact I would be interested in is any numbers on a rise or decline in the “believers”. Thank you…
Don’t be so quick to think that only non-intelligent people believe in God. Indeed, there are probably numerous people on this very board who are both intelligent and religious.
I do think that there are more stupid believers than stupid non-believers, but that could easily be simply because there are so many more believers.
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I don’t think “IQ” intelligence is something by which we should value people one way or the other. In the bigger scheme of things, emotional intelligence, for example, is equally important.
I know what you’re getting at, MetropoChris, but I think there’s every chance the number of faithful will stay around the same or increase. I don’t think intelligence and faith have much connection. Einstein was a believer, to name one.
I think of my own progress through life. As a teenager and beyond, I was a science fanatic, a lover of logic and deep thought. There couldn’t possibly be a God, and believers were stupid; weaklings following blindly and irrationally.
But as I grow older, I consider soul and spirituality as much as thought. This doesn’t mean I suddenly believe in God; I don’t. But it does lend more of an understanding of the human condition, and a respect for faith and piety. Life seems to fill up with questions that can’t be persued from any one standpoint alone.
Of the various spiritual matter I’ve read, the ideas of Buddhism resonate the strongest for me. Which suits me, since at it’s core it’s not really a religion. No Gods, just a subscription to the teachings of this wise old Indian dude
P.S. For reference sake, and coz it makes me feel smart, my IQ is 150.
Yes, Einstein did say a lot of stuff about how God does not play dice with the universe and that he wants to know God’s thoughts. But these were poetic usages of speech, equivalent to “God only knows” and calling something an “act of God.”
Hello all. Im new here today, and must say Im rather impressed with the clientel thus far. I came in nwith no introduction and made some bold and presumptious comments on what is generaly a sensitive matter for most; and got nothing but incredibly intelligent and mature responses. I think im going to like it here. I hope I can fit in and keep up with the intalect I believe thrives here…
Yes, this is a great board, with a great variety and thoughts and ideas expressed and shared. You will like it here!
I think you will also find many “spelling police” here as well. Just warning you. You might dust off the old spell check. (Since this thread is about “intelligence” and all! )
My understanding and appologies. I run WebTV for all email and basic internet uses. Therfore I do not have the ability to spell check. I have come to the conclusion that a brief proof read as I type is much more convenient to me. I trust the reader to understand any typos as they arent too far from the correct spelling
Well, MetropoChris, at least you’ve mastered the post-quoting function, which is way beyond what most here can do after ten posts.
You should be careful about making OPs that include possible insulting generalizations, such as non-religious folk being more intelligent and such. I suspect (correct me if I’m wrong) that what you’re really pointing out is how religion/theistic belief is so often a tool/substitute for weak thinkers, and wondering whether religious participation will wane as the general population becomes more educated, and in theory, more strong in the head.
The answer is no, because (as has been pointed out already) belief in god(s) is not necessarily indicative of weak-mindedness or ignorance. As with anything else, the existence/nonexistence of god can be debated brilliantly or retardedly. Even a hypothetical population of well-balanced, reasonable geniuses would still wonder about god. They just wouldn’t be irrationally using god to remove science from schools or attacking homosexuals. Or attacking each other, one would hope.
Even religion itself, long the target of the rationalists, has its place in culture. Rituals, mythologies, charities–these all have a positive function so long as they’re uncorrupted by politics and fear. What we could hope for in a smarter world is not declining church membership, but purer, gentler, less politicized church members.
So bring on the new world of smarter folks, I say, and let their religious actions–not their religious beliefs–be the barometer of how far we’ve come along.
Historically and for the general population, there was simply no alternative to religion in the understanding of life prior to the 1850’s. As the bible was the only source of wisdom in this field, religion flourished across society.
One might argue that in the subsequent 150 years the power and influence of religion in many western societies has waned (excluding the, by comparison, radical US experience) in direct correlation with the growth of scientific knowledge / theory, greater wealth, freedom and, perhaps crucially, secular education.
I would love to see some research on the role both socialisation and personality type influences the religious beliefs of late 20th century graduate and post-grad level believers compared with their non-believing classmates. Just out of curiosity, you understand.
However, I speak from a country recently suggested by a leading Historian to be the most secular of western societies. Perhaps I’m beyond the pale.
I would love to see some research on the role both socialisation and personality type play in influencing the religious beliefs of late 20th century graduate and post-grad level believers compared with their non-believing classmates. Just out of curiosity, you understand.
William F. Buckley, whom I see as one of the most intelligent and insightful people, is also very deeply religious.
I have often looked at religion as a “cop-out” to explain the unexplainable where science (so far) has failed. Now, I’ve come to see intelligent discussions (on this board and elsewhere) that point to insightful thinkers deeply rooted in faith, and I see that more weak-thinking people seem to opt for paranormal beliefs, if that may be considered a religion.
Upon being asked if he believed in God by Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the Institutional Synagogue, New York,
April 24, 1921, Einstein: The Life and Times, Ronald W. Clark, Page 502.
Spinoza said that nothing exists ** but ** God–a God that is similar to the Hindu Brahman, or even God as He is conceived in some western mystical traditions. Einstein just meant he didn’t believe in a big man in the sky with a long white beard.
Gee, I feel that way about the unreligious. I keep telling people there is a simple scientific experiment one can perform which would provide ample evidence that there is a God, but no one has taken me up on verifying my results. Some intelligence!
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Not sure about “intelligence” but I have of wondered if religion would wane in the face of ever increasing scientific knowledge. But it does not appear to be the case.
There is an article in the most recent edition of Skeptical Inquirer suggesting an evolutionary benefit of religion - shared religious beliefs better enabled primitive societies to thrive, therefore there was evolutionary advantage to those with brains capable of such complex abstract thought. Of course, what does that say about atheists?
I am, like you, an atheist. I also am human enough to really want to believe that I have the “straight dope” on the question of whether God exists or not, and to think that others who don’t see the obvious* fact that God does not exist are, well, not quite as bright as those who agree with me. I have seen about a gazillion idiotic religious zealots out there, with weird cults and nonsensical beliefs that fly in the face of the evidence. It’s insidiously tempting to think those folks are representative of the rest of the religious believers, but it really isn’t so. If you hang out here, you are going to find out that, to paraphrase my sig file, “there are a lot of smart theists around here.” (Triskadecamus is one of them.)
obvious, of course, to me. Other’s find it equally obvious that God is real.
And vice versa. Atheists are like people who insist, because others have told them, that the Sun revolves around the Earth without being at all willing to test that hypothesis when a certain dedicated observation would show otherwise. Although I’ll accept there are many blind theists out there which doesn’t help the cause.
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