Intermittent no-internet prob. Blame DSL service? Comp settings? Comp HW? Gremlin?

[AHunter3]

OKzies, I’m flummoxed. (So is Verizon’s tech support)

Presenting Problem, in brief:

At random intervals, perhaps 6-8 times per year, in one of two locations only, DSL stops working.

Elaboration on Presenting Problem:
Problem may go away in a day or may persist for a week or more. During course of problem, DSL on exact same computer (it’s a laptop) with exact same settings continues to work just fine at the other location. Probably sounds to you like a DSL-service-to-first-location problem (that was always my assumption) but it’s not that simple. Read hardware and settings overview then I will elaborate some more on problem.
Background hardware & settings info:

I use a laptop (Apple Mac PowerBook G4, MacOS X 10.4.11), in two locations, both of which have DSL via Verizon. An identical DSL modem in each place (somewhat elderly Westell WireSpeeds), plus a newer Westell Model 6100 in Location 2 for a total of 3 DSL modems. I have two DSL accounts, with settings on the PowerBook (“locations”) for each setting, but under normal circumstances they work interachangeably, i.e., I can log on via DSL Account A or DSL Account B in either Location 1 or Location 2. I also have an Apple AirPort Express 802.11g (“Wi-Fi”) module, which has multiple “profiles” one of which exactly mimics one of the DSL account settings I use on the PowerBook. And I have a decent handful of spare ethernet cables in known good condition. I should mention that in the PowerBook’s “Locations”, the one for DSL Account A and for DSL Account B use ONLY ethernet, nothing else, and that for the location “Airport Only”, it used ONLY AirPort, nothing else. Therefore if I’m getting a valid IP for any given profile it’s definitely coming in via one and only one mechanism, not falling back to an auxiliary means of getting online.
The confusing part (more elaboration on problem):

After verifying that switching DSL modems (I have two at Location 2), swapping out ethernet cables, and rebooting the computer to no avail yesterday, called Verizon tech support, did the usual arguing that it’s not my bloody settings because they work fine at Location 1 and that it’s not my hardware, so the problem is obviously that Verizon is not getting signal to me here at Location 2. In the course of said argument, tech support guy asked “So do you have another computer there?” and I said “No, but I have an AirPort module. I can hook it up to the DSL modem via ethernet and it won’t get a signal either”. And proceeded to do so. And damned if the AirPort module didn’t get a valid PPPoE connection! I not only saw it in the Airport Admin Tool screen, I turned on AirPort on the PowerBook and fetched my email. MM-kay, so let’s just switch the cables back so the PowerBook, not the AirPort Base Station, is wired to the DSL modem, and switch my Location from “Airport Only” back to “DSL Account B” and see if the line problem just cleared up. Nope, no PPPoE server. Try “DSL Account A”. Nope, no PPPoE server. Switch back to “AirPort Only” and reconnect the ethernet cable to the Base Station. After a brief moment for the base station to reconnect, I can browse and fetch email.

OK, NOW it sounds like I’ve got a hardware problem, doesn’t it? Ethernet gone south, yes? Except that I go home to Location 1 and plug in ethernet cable and voila, I’m online. And definitely getting my signal from that ethernet connection.

And this morning I’m back at Location 2 and ethernet + ethernet settings are working just fine. And will, until next time.

What the heck can be causing this phenomenon?

[Noelq]

@AHunter3

OKzies, I’m flummoxed. (So is Verizon’s tech support)
What the heck can be causing this phenomenon?

First, lets check something simple. From the description you give, you aren’t plugging in an ethernet cable - you are trying to connect wirelessly. (if you are plugging in a cable, make sure that your wireless card is turned OFF. it can cause wacky problems like this sometimes).

You should have the ability to scan the local area to see the available wireless networks. When you scan the local networks, are there two networks with the same name? If so, your laptop could be trying to connect to the wrong one, and getting its connection rejected.

Secondly - are you using the default wireless broadcaster name? If so, change it to something different, and see if it fixes your problem. For example, if the default name is Apple-Wireless, change it to be Hunter-Apple-Wireless. Its possible that your next-door neighbor has the same setup, and calls his Apple-Wireless, which causes a connection name issue.

Thirdly - Is there a limit to the number of connections you have? If so, maybe you’ve reached it. Again, if you are using the default of Apple-Wireless, and you have a maximum of 3 connections, perhaps someone in your neighborhood is stealing your bandwidth accidentally.

Finally - In your swapping back and forth from the cables, are you shutting your laptop down all the way, or just putting it in sleep mode? If you are just using sleep mode, turn the sucker off all the way before re-connecting. Your IP settings can get confused along the line.

From the way you discuss it, you have no issue when plugged directly into the cable. Therefore, I’ve focused on the wireless stuff.

Good luck.

[AHunter3]

@Noelq

First, lets check something simple. From the description you give, you aren’t plugging in an ethernet cable - you are trying to connect wirelessly. (if you are plugging in a cable, make sure that your wireless card is turned OFF. it can cause wacky problems like this sometimes).

No, you misread. I have both the ability to get online via a wireless card and the ability to get online by plugging in an ethernet cable. There is a software setting (called “Location”) which specifies which TCP setting to use, and when the ethernet (PPPoE) protocol is enabled the wireless (Airport, aka 802.11g) is disabled and vice versa. (It doesn’t have to be set up that way, but mine is).

You should have the ability to scan the local area to see the available wireless networks. When you scan the local networks, are there two networks with the same name? If so, your laptop could be trying to connect to the wrong one, and getting its connection rejected.

No, at Location 2, although there are other wirleless networks available, they are all password-protected, and by preference it connects to my own anyhow. Yes I did look. Yes it’s connecting to my own network and not some other wireless network when I use the wireless.

Secondly - are you using the default wireless broadcaster name? If so, change it to something different, and see if it fixes your problem. For example, if the default name is Apple-Wireless, change it to be Hunter-Apple-Wireless. Its possible that your next-door neighbor has the same setup, and calls his Apple-Wireless, which causes a connection name issue.

Mine flies by the name of “Allan Hunter’s Airport Signal”. It’s unlikely that anyone else is using that.

Thirdly - Is there a limit to the number of connections you have? If so, maybe you’ve reached it. Again, if you are using the default of Apple-Wireless, and you have a maximum of 3 connections, perhaps someone in your neighborhood is stealing your bandwidth accidentally.

When I am indeed using the wireless connection, I have no problem going on line. Ever. Zero. Zip. Nada. It’s when I plug in the bloody ethernet cable, and only some of the time even then, that I can’t get an IP.

The only reason I brought up the wireless network was that the Airport Base Station was gettings its connection to the internet via the exact same DSL modem that my PowerBook couldn’t get a signal from yesterday. Don’t spend much time thinking about wireless network, it’s a red herring. I used the Airport Base Station in lieu of having a second computer to plug in. The Base Station gets a PPPoE connection to DSL just as a computer would. (Or should fail, just as my computer was failing). The relevance here is that it was working when my computer was not, and yet my computer worked at a different location that same evening and the next morning (this morning) worked fine up there at Location 2 where it would not work the day before.

Finally - In your swapping back and forth from the cables, are you shutting your laptop down all the way, or just putting it in sleep mode? If you are just using sleep mode, turn the sucker off all the way before re-connecting. Your IP settings can get confused along the line.

I did full reboots, I booted from totally different hard drives even.

From the way you discuss it, you have no issue when plugged directly into the cable. Therefore, I’ve focused on the wireless stuff.

No, no, no, no, no. Entirely the opposite. I have no issue when using the wireless, I am (periodically, intermittently) unable to go online when I am plugged directly into the cable.

One more time: that makes it sound like I’ve got a hardware problem in my ethernet port on my PowerBook, right? But no, I take it there the next morning and it’s fine.

But if it were Verizon’s signal, the Airport Base Station should have been equally unable to make a PPPoE connection and that was not the case.

[Noelq]

@AHunter3

No, no, no, no, no. Entirely the opposite. I have no issue when using the wireless, I am (periodically, intermittently) unable to go online when I am plugged directly into the cable.

One more time: that makes it sound like I’ve got a hardware problem in my ethernet port on my PowerBook, right? But no, I take it there the next morning and it’s fine.

Heh. Welcome to the wonderful world of trying to diagnose stuff without it being hands-on.

Now that I understand, I have very little advice to offer. The one thing that I would check - If you look at the properties for your network port, usually under the “power” setting, your laptop can have the ability to disable the port “to save power” when the “battery only” is in use. Its possible that this feature is disabling the port when you are on battery, and even though you plug it back into power, not re-enabling it for wired use. It usually takes a reboot or two to re-activate it, or it takes the software some time to realize that it can reactivate the port. This setting MAY also be in your power-saving settings for the laptop, or in a separate program altogether.

If that isn’t it, then I’ve got no clue.

Sorry for the misunderstanding - but if you can always get on the wireless, and not plugged in, then its on your laptop end.

Good luck.

[Merkwurdigliebe]

Try checking the cable modem with another computer.

[AHunter3]

@Noelq

Heh. Welcome to the wonderful world of trying to diagnose stuff without it being hands-on.

Yeah, I appreciate your patience!

If you look at the properties for your network port, usually under the “power” setting, your laptop can have the ability to disable the port “to save power” when the “battery only” is in use.

I don’t seem to have any such setting (MacOS 10.4.11) but I also have no problems working with an ethernet conneciton when the power adapter is unplugged and I’m running on battery power. Did it this morning for about an hour, in fact.

if you can always get on the wireless, and not plugged in, then its on your laptop end.

Seems like is just has to be, doesn’t it? But it’s so weird that the symptoms appear and disappear, and that they don’t even appear at random occasional intervals but instead appear at, and ONLY at, a specific location (Location 2).

@Merkwurdigliebe

Try checking the cable modem with another computer.

DSL Modem. I have two of them. When the symptom crops up, swapping from one to the other does not help. Meanwhile, attaching the AirPort Base Station when the symptoms were present day before yesterday resulted in the Base Station getting an IP.

I do have another computer I could check with, I guess, but it’s kind of bulky to haul up there (it’s currently in storage at Location 1, and it isn’t a laptop)