Interpretive Dancing as a form of worship

Well, in fuller context:

“But dancing is a dangerous thing involving the body as extensively as it does. It must be sanctified by the spontaneity of the heart.”

It certainly seems to me that this is equating the body with “dangerousness”, and identifying the heart as having the capacity to “sanctify”. And although I would certainly agree that “lewd and sensual movements” are not appropriate in the context of a worship service, I wonder why the author feels it necessary to explicitly point this out. Does he feel that lewd movement in the pulpit is actually a widespread problem? If so, either he is going to very different services than I am or he is (IMO) unhealthily preoccupied with ferreting out lewdness.

But I will cheerfully concede that maybe I am reading too much into it, and the author is not actually holding the views which I attributed to him. However, if I am, then I still don’t understand how leading a congregation in synchronized movement is different from leading them in responsive reading (which, AFAIK, also does not have any explicit Biblical endorsement).

I guess I just believe all churches are essentially social and entertainment venues, so you might as well dance!

Why would choreographed dancing be any different from singing hymns?

Everybody dance now

Hey, any church that has Martha Wash leading the choir is one I’ll be happy to attend…

Ugh. Liturgical dance showed up particularly in high school Masses and I can’t stand it. Of course I don’t like when there is a solo singer instead of a communal hymn during Mass either. In both cases it’s too focused on the performer and not God.

He’s a Lutheran. He objects to everything. :wink:

I’ve never attended a church where “interpretive dance” was a cohesive, choreographed production meant to “lead worship.” I have seen many, many instances of impromptu, spontaneous personal “interpretive dance” being performed by individuals as part of their own activities during worship. I see nothing wrong with this…
“When the spirit of the Lord moves in my heart, I will dance as David danced…”

And as far as sensuality…might want to give Song of Solomon a quick read sometime.

Let’s be clear, though. The purpose of church is NOT to “benefit society.” The purpose of the Christian church is to worship God, and preach the Gospel, according to Christ’s great commission to the disciples. These are two separate things. “Benefitting society” is a by-product of adhering to the great commission, so that actions and charities are an outreach of love to the community at large, nothing more, nothing less. If the outreach itself becomes the focus, something is amiss. It is a legitimate tool for creating an OPPORTUNITY to “…preach the gospel to every creature,” but it is the means, not the end.

And you’re completely ignoring the sections wherein he applauded the type of dancing that David performed. It may “certainly seem” to you that he’s equating anything of the body with evil, but that is absolutely not what he is saying. You are reading way too much into what he said and failing to consider the fact that he voiced NO OBJECTIONS to the type of dancing that David engaged in.

Couldn’t the same be said of a choir or singer leading a hymn, or to a lesser extent a hymn sung by a congregation?

I read Burton’s comment as meaning that because the Psalms pre-date Christianity, and thus can’t be said to refer to that religion specifically. If one accepts that David composed the Psalms, then the Psalms are explicitly Jewish.

Perhaps Burton will come by and clear this up?

We are mixing a couple of movements (snerk) in modern Christianity.

You have the Charismatic/Evangelical Mega-Churches where there seems to be a higher concentration on modern music vs. “classic” hymns, along with a focus on the positive side of Christianity (“All the joy, and only 1/5th the guilt!”).

You have the advent of the “hippy service” at many regular churches (the Protestant equivalent of when Mass dropped Latin, based on comments from members of the congregation). At our Presbyterian “hippy service” - held on Saturday or Sunday night typically, you get the exact same sermon, but instead of a choir you have a small band singing more modern tunes.

Much as the classic lovers focus on Bach’s work for hymns, there ARE some good modern songs. However, that is a matter of taste, not scripture IMHO.

Finally, you get a little dancing. I have been to African American churches where people dance in the aisles (much like the scene in the Blues Brothers with James Brown preaching and Chaka Khan in the choir). I have personally not seen any formal interpretive dance, but I have been to churches where I would not be surprised if it happened.

I think this is an excellent question, and I would like to see JT answer it instead of speculating on my speculations about what the author of his linked article may or may not have been thinking!

Revival meetings are hardly “new” except when compared to the entire history of Christianity. There have been revival meetings since the late 1800s and they’ve been influential in Protestant sects in the US for generations.

The main church my family attended when I was younger was Pentecostal. If you ever attended a session at one of those churches you’d a lot weirder stuff than ecstatic dance (which is the term I think you’re looking for instead of “interpretive” dance). Faith healing, speaking in tongues, fits of spirit possession, rolling in the aisles, all kinds of freaky shit. Incidentally, my church considered the Mormons to be a sect about a step removed from devil worship that didn’t deserve to be called a Christian faith. I personally consider Mormonism to be way less weird in many respects than those guys were. Even the exposed secret practices of Mormons that I’ve read about aren’t quite as bizarre as some of the stuff I experienced there.

There are really, really different ways of worshipping among Christian churches. The Pentecostals and snake handlers consider themselves to be just as Christian as any Lutheran church, if not more so. Your interpretation may be at odds with theirs, but they self-identify as Christians.

So you feel justified in speculating on what the author was thinking, but you somehow find it objectionable for me to address those speculations? That strikes me as a bit inconsistent.

FTR, I was not “speculating,” and I think you know that. Rather, I very specifically cited statements by the author which contradicted your interpretation. I also emphasized that he said nothing about the body being evil, as you claimed that he believed.
Regarding RT’s point, I think there’s multiple significant differences between singing a hymn and watching a dance troupe perform on stage. For one thing, singing is something that the entire church gets to do. The musician may be leading the worship, but everyone gets to sing. That doesn’t make it impossible for the worship leaders to comport themselves in ways that draw attention to themselves – by showboating, for example. However, it does mean that there’s a major and fundamental difference between singing on stage and dancing about.

Also, dance – by its very nature – tends to draw attention to the dancers. Not so with music; for example, it’s common for people to be playing music in the background and listening to it peripherally. In contrast, the entire point behind having a dance performance is to focus the attention on the dancers. (Again, I’m not saying that music can NOT be used to focus attention on the performer. That certainly happens far too often. However, when performed in a reverent and understated manner, the focus remains where it should be – on the content of the music.)

Which leads to a third critical distinction between the two. Music that’s theologically sound very specifically directs people to the object of worship. Not so when it comes to dance performances, for nothing in the dance motions specifically exalts the Lord God Almighty. You can clasp your hands to your chest, but the same would be true of somebody who’s pining over a lost love. You can lift your hands up to the heavens, but the same wold be true of someone worshipping Mother Nature. Nothing in the motions themselves draws people to God.

Again, I emphasize – similar dangers can exist when it comes to music. For example, somebody once urged the worship leader at my old church to do a long, bombastic harmonica solo. To his credit, he refused. Why? Because he knew that the harmonica music, by itself, did nothing to draw people’s focus to the Lord. He had no objection to playing a short bridge between stanzas, but he refused to do anything more than that. He knew that the music itself, without the words of praise, was not inherently worshipful, and he refused to make himself the object of attention.

“What about instrumental music?” one might ask. Again, that needs to be done with prudence and caution. Few people would associate Johann Sebastian Bach’s “Jesu, Joy of Man’s Desiring” with a worshipful mood nowadays; heck, few people would even recognize it! But if you play a familiar tune during the brief offertory, for example, that strikes me as appropriate. It’s a time for silent reflection in which vocals would be distracting. At the same time, you want people to be reminded of a spiritual theme, and so playing a familiar hymn or spiritual tune would be justified.
So I think there are some very clear and significant differences between singing a hymn and watching dancers perform on stage. I realize that you might not put much importance on these things; if so, I won’t beat myself up trying to change your mind. My point is that we can’t pretend that the two actions are fundamentally the same. They are not.

It’s probably reflective of your personal musical tastes; not the worthiness of it as an offering to a god.

*Silly? * Surely you can appreciate the humor here, from an atheist point of view.

JT, we are going to have to agree to disagree on whether your rebuttal of my interpretation of the worldview of your linked author was persuasive. What I found objectionable was your attempt to sidetrack the thread into a discussion of my interpretation. I granted that you might be right, and asked you, assuming that my characterization of his objections to dance were incorrect, to clarify exactly what he, and presumably you, did find objectionable. You have now done that, and I think I better understand your point.

I need to apologize for an assumption I made, which, reviewing the thread, appears to have been in error. When I have personally experienced these sorts of things in synagogue, they have not been “performances” of dance so much of “leading” of movements which the entire congregation was encouraged to follow along with. I assumed that this was what we have been talking about, so my analogy to responsive readings and singalongs was not as exact as I originally assumed it was. It appears my confusion on this point was at the root of much of our disagreement, and I apologize for that. I agree that having the congregation sit passively while worship leaders “perform” is not desirable, and it seems we agree that this problem can arise either in the context of music or dance.

But I disagree with your third point. If a congregation posits that a given physical movement, in the context of their service, represents the expression of a certain theological concept, that is no less valid than agreeing that a certain vocal sound represents a concept. Music that you would think of as “exalting God” would just be meaningless gibberish to a non-English speaker. So the difference you are postulating here is really just the difference between spoken language and sign language, which IMO is not significant in this context.

Nope, they sound like reasonable differences to me. Besides, it doesn’t matter which *I * put importance on, but believers like yourself.