No haters please.
Is the primary purpose of organized worship services to build community among members of a church (synagogue, temple, mosque) or to set aside an time specifically to honor God?
Neither, it’s to antagonise god.
Matthew 6:5-6
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Well thanks for the reply, but you are missing the point of that bit of scripture.
Hopefully some more informed opinions are on the way…
And the point is?
Um, welcome to the boards Chad.
The point of someone posting something is that they are looking for answers/discussion on a certain topic.
If you cannot contribute in the theme of the original post, the polite thing to do is post nothing, or start your own thread.
No, the point to “that bit of scripture”, which you say I missed.
It’s a biblical reference to what you were asking about, in which (what I assume is your version of god) tells you not worship in church at all.
You said I missed the point to that scripture, not this thread. I asked what the point was then?
Chad,
I have looked at some of your past posts and have picked up on a few things…
#1) People do not respond to you or your posts.
#2) You are anti-religion.
I respect your opinion and your choices. I just ask that this thread be about my OP.
If you think the purpose of organized worship is to anagonize God, that is your opinion.
'nuff
Why don’t you just admit it.
You claim that I missed the point of what Jesus was saying, and as such gave the impression that you more correctly understood what he meant. But that was all smoke screen, wasn’t it?
#1) If you didn’t respond it wouldn’t have been so obvious.
#2) The fact that I am anti-superstition (er, religion) is irrelevant.
Plus putting your actions face to face with biblical admonishment on the first reply was irresistable.
badchad, I always took the point of that bit of scripture to mean “do not make a show of your worshipping for worship’s sake only”. In other words, dont go to church just to win brownie points with your neighbors.
newscrasher, I have come to the conclusion that worship services are for two reasons - your first reason, and the very reason that badchad’s scripture warns against.
I don’t thnk it would be to set aside a specific time of worship. If it were, there would be no reason for community - we could instead just all go into our closets at 11:00 on Sunday.
I may be one of your “haters”, and if so, I’m sorry, but I wasn’t sure exactly what you meant by that, but IME the reason most people go to organized worship services is to a) show everyone how pious they are and/or b) make note of the ones who aren’t there and appoint themselves the person who should apprise those absent of the error in their ways. Oh, and I forgot a very important one - c) to gossip in the narthex between Sunday School and services.
By the way, if it matters, I am a Christian.
Is there any reason that both of your reasons couldn’t co-exist with each other along with some other reasons. The one I would mention is the collection of donations, which supports everything else. This is not a criticism, but rather a fact. Lots of people complain about how churches are run, which means they don’t contribute many if any funds to a church. They should try becoming the largest donor and then see how much they could change things in a church. That might not sound good, but without the financial support from “true believers” there would be no churches; no community; no time set aside for God; or for what is referred to as missions (charity).
The point of Matthew 6, vv5-6, is that the purpose of worship is not for people to see you worshipping and be impressed by your show of piety. The point of worship is to honour God and improve your personal relationship with Him. Ideally, everything a Christian does, in public or in private, should be done with that aim in mind - ideally, every act should be an act of worship.
The point of community worship is to spread the blessing around … to come together as a group, to reaffirm each other’s purpose, to bear up those whose faith is weakening, to follow the example of those whose faith is strong, to act together as a group (because a group is stronger than the individuals who comprise it, and can do more good in the world.) It’s possible that people who go to worship services may fall into the trap of believing it’s just for the sake of making a show … but it’s also true that individual Christians may not be able to do it all by themselves … and that it’s the right thing, at least, to stand up and be counted as a member of the Christian faith.
(This answer from a Christian’s perspective, no disrespect hereby intended to those of different faiths or none.)
I would venture that the primary purpose of organized worship varies strongly as a function of denomination/congregation. Certain groups would value community more highly, others would value honoring God more highly, and some would be equally balanced.
How about for
a) taking communion and remembering the Savior (“this do in remembrance of me”)
b) learning something or refreshing the spirit by listening to the homily or sermon or the scriptures
c) establishing a community which is stronger than its constituent parts and better able to do acts of charity or service (international aid, sponsoring projects, food banks, organizing manpower and time, etc.)
as well as the first two things in the OP.
Steve Wright:
The point of Matthew 6, vv5-6, is that the purpose of worship is not for people to see you worshipping and be impressed by your show of piety. The point of worship is to honour God and improve your personal relationship with Him. Ideally, everything a Christian does, in public or in private…
That’s the typical rationalization. Except that Jesus specifically said to do it in private and not in public.
Though I agree with kniz about the collection of donations being of importance, but in my case that would be a criticism. Also the social support alluded to by Steve. Without it it would be difficult to maintain said beliefs in the face of all that science stuff.
I’ll try to mind my own business now.
Worship: From the old english weorthscipe; to pay attention to things of worth.
It has it’s roots in ritual. All ritual is intended to bring about some sort of intercession or protection from the gods. The details vary.
Heigh-ho. You call it rationalization, I call it thinking about the meaning of the Scripture, within its context. Because, if God hadn’t wanted me to think about Scripture, He wouldn’t have given me a brain.
If you want to be relentlessly literal, the passage quoted refers only to prayer … so, public acts of preaching, hymn-singing, speaking in tongues and mortifying the flesh should all be A-OK, right?
And, by the way, not everybody sees any necessary conflict between science and religion. In fact, insofar as they’re both aimed at uncovering the fundamental Truth of our existence and the universe we live in, they should be natural allies. IMHO.
Jesus taught in synagogues so it’s probably a bit much to say that he disapproved of public worship or group prayer altogether. Some Jewish prayers, in fact, can only be said in the presence of a quorum of ten other men (called a minyan). Jesus may have intended private prayer to be said “in a closet,” and he may well have been condemning public prayer outside of a synagogue but his statement probably wasn’t as absolutist as badchad is trying to indicate.
Interestingly, the word “hypocrite” in Greek meant “stage actor.” When Jesus was ripping into “hypocrites,” he was talking about grandstanding, ostentatious, self-serving displays of piety, (ala the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells of today). He meant that sincere prayer did not require an audience. Hyperbolic contrasts were also a part of Aramaic rhetorical conventions so the “closet” thing may have been said for rhetorical effect and not meant to have been taken literally.
Having said that, I think that Jesus would have been fine with praying in church (if not shocked at his own deification), but I doubt he would care much for prayers said over PA systems at football games.
Steve Wright:
If you want to be relentlessly literal, the passage quoted refers only to prayer … so, public acts of preaching, hymn-singing, speaking in tongues and mortifying the flesh should all be A-OK, right?
That sounds fair enough. But you do pray in church don’t you? Even though Jesus said to nock it off. BTW, you can also heal the sick, and play with snakes and poison in public, in fact I think he encouraged that. Don’t blame me, I’m not the one socialized into accepting such a convoluted religion.
And, by the way, not everybody sees any necessary conflict between science and religion. In fact, insofar as they’re both aimed at uncovering the fundamental Truth of our existence and the universe we live in, they should be natural allies. IMHO.
I suppose that one glaring difference is that science actually delivers answers rather than pretending to.
Diogenes the Cynic:
Jesus taught in synagogues so it’s probably a bit much to say that he disapproved of public worship or group prayer altogether.
It’s not the only time Jesus taught one thing and did another.
SDMB is usually a plcae where people respect rules and one another.
I simply wanted some discussion on worship, but alas my thread has been hopelessly hijacked.
Bad Doper Ettiquette…