The purpose of worship services...

Great Debates
21

Well, newcrasher, I hope this helps.

I think that worship services don’t have any single particular purpose; the ones you cited are probably fairly important to most. My own faith is very emphatic on ties between people and ties between the people and the gods; most practices involve one or both of these, which I’d say are of equal importance.

There are some other things to keep in mind, though. Some services are constructed to induce or assist in perpetuating a particular frame of mind; oftentimes those frames of mind are difficult (or perhaps impossible) to create outside the context of shared ritual.

Some religions have practices that include the pooling of knowledge or a division of skills. Call and response services are not uncommon, and have a particular feel to them. Some religions have important things that are structured around enactments of particular rituals – consider Communion in Christianity as an example, or the interactions between High Priestess, High Priest, and the quarters in formal Wicca. A congregation or group of whatever sort provides a continuity of knowledge and the ability to bring new people into the faith smoothly through growing familiarity with the rites and practices.

There is also the support of the community, which is, admittedly, a two-edged sword. There are those people who will use their displays of piety as a play to get status, as the Matthew passage condemns. There are, however, also those people who find comfort in the knowledge of association with like-minded people; humans do have fairly strong tribal tendencies, after all. And these communities often support their members in material ways as well as bolstering spiritual doubt and providing that shared context.

Personally, I’m dubious about setting aside times specifically for the gods as a motivation; it’s a sort of compartmentalisation that I can’t actually pull off. If my gods are not a part of my life with continuity, then a special time for them is fairly hollow. What services do for me are, in part, to make a time where that is a primary focus, not one of the minor incidentals of my life.

22

Without worship services, it would be much harder for a given religion to collect money from its followers. Religions are a business, just like anything else that tries to make money off customers. Praying for free at home is the Napster of organized religion. That’s why Matthew 6:5-6 is only ever cited by atheists, as religious leaders really don’t want anyone to know about it. You’ll never see jerry falwell talking about how jesus doesn’t want you to pray and/or show your religiosity in public.

23

I’m of the opinion it does both.

From a functionalist viewpoint, the time of worship (of whatever tradition you’re practicing) is a time for building community, to re-affirm that those gathered have the same beliefs and practices. It also provides a core practice upon which other rituals, such as courtship and feasting and other community practices can be built.

And, of course, it can also provides the time for whatever religious ceremonies the community partakes in.

24

Actually, Jesus specifically recommended that His followers gather into groups to pray together - see Matthew 18:19-20.

The passage cited does not ban public worship for Christians. It bans making a show of your piety for the purposes of self-aggrandization.

It has to do with your motives - the reason you are doing something, rather than what you are doing. Jesus tells us specifically to make witness to the world (Matthew 10:27), and even tells us to do good works in public (Matthew 5:14-16), but to do them in such a way that those who see give glory, not to us, but to the God who motivates us.

It is sort of a subtle point, but if you read the rest of what Jesus teaches regarding hypocrisy in religion, you get what He is talking about. He never condemns prayer, or alms-giving, or public witnessing - indeed, He recommends them to all. What He does condemn is the desire to do any of these good things “in order to be seen by men”.

Since the Church is still comprised mostly of sinners, we do not always do what He says. But sometimes, by the grace of God, we do. As in worship, whose purpose is largely (in the words of Martin Luther) “the mutual conversation and consolation of the brethren”.

Regards,
Shodan

25

Well Jerry Falwell isn’t my religious leader, but I’ve heard plenty of homilies on that passage. Generally around Lent, there are reminders that prayer and sacrifice don’t need to be “public” displays.

(See here for the passage in question and commentary from the U.S. Catholic Bishops…for example)

26

IMO the word worship presupposes a divinity. At least, that is the common meaning as evidenced by numerous dictionaries I consulted when I opposed the use of this word with respect to services in a UU church. Chalk that up to another battle for which I seem to have chosen the losing side, as the current head of the UUA seems determined to use a “language of reverence.”

As I’ve expressed on these boards before, I am not sure why a god would need to be worshipped. Strikes me as somewhat insecure - both on part of the deity and the community. Would think the parishoners’ time might be better spent actually going out and doing good things, instead of simply singing the praises of a being that should already knows he’s the bees knees.

As far as the parishoners go, of course their beliefs must be right. Why else would there be this big old building, and all these other folks taking time out of their Sunday?

27

Are these the same catholic bishops who insist that nativity scenes be put on public property every december? Yeah… they are.

28

Well Dinsdale, thanks for adding nothing pertaining to the OP. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly some people who oppose religion feel the need to squash the sentiment of anyone who enjoys it.

God does not need anything from us. We worship Him because he deserves it and he is worthy. If everyone stopped worshipping, He would not be affected one bit. We WANT to show out love and appreciation for Him.

29

Cite?

30

Are you stating that these parishoners are not also “going out and doing good things?” :confused:

31

From the OP:

From my response:

[quote]
IMO the word worship presupposes a divinity.
[/quote[/quote]

Are any of those words too long for you?

In order to illustrate my point - namely in direct response to your OP that worshipping requires an object of worship, most commonly a divine being or supernatural power - I offered my personal experience where I considered it an inappropriate term for whatever it is that takes place in UU churches, which ostensibly mandate no acceptance of a divinity.

Methinks you have set up a false alternative in your OP - you obviously take it as a granted that a supernatural exists to which reverence should be directed.

Hell, I would no sooner desire to disavow you of your belief that makes you happy, than I would tell a little kid that there is no Santa Claus, Easter bunny, or tooth fairy. Of course as far as the little kid is concerned, there is hope that as they age they will grow to appreciate myth and fairy tales for what they are. In your case, however, …

Sorry I wasted my time responding to your query. Won’t happen again.

32

I didn’t see such a statement in my post, did you?

Of course, I believe it stands to reason that at least during the period they are sitting in church, they aren’t helping little old ladies cross the street.

33

You seem to be at least suggesting that parishoners are not doing enough good things…in part because they spend an hour out of week in a church service. Did I get it right this time?

34

Yes, I did.

I think the phrase “instead of” implies that they are mutually exclusive. Which you seem to realize when you posted:

Even if you assume that worship is not in itself a good thing, part of most worship services that I have attended included receiving a collection to carry on the good works of the church (my church supports a food shelf, a battered woman’s shelter, and a subsidized preschool), announcements about the various ministries of the church, and rather extensive exhortation and instruction on how and why to carry out the good works we both agree are necessary.

If you are asking why Unitarians have worship services if they don’t have Anyone to worship, I have no idea, and would agree that the word “worship” is not an appropriate one for whatever it is that they do. Perhaps Esprix could give more insight - I am not a Unitarian.

But if, as you claim, Unitarians don’t worship, your quibble is off-topic and irrelevant to the OP, which referred specifically to the purpose of worship.

So what exactly are you saying? That Unitarians don’t worship? That Unitarians are also wasting their time doing whatever you want to call whatever they do when they could be “out helping little old ladies cross the street” instead? Or that atheists are also wasting every minute they spend not worshipping, because they could be helping little old ladies across the street?

What is the purpose of worship? What is the purpose of telling my parents that I love them? What is the purpose of getting together with them on holidays and sharing a meal? What is the purpose of asking their advice and encouragement?

Regards,
Shodan

35

weekly brainwashing, by any chance

Dal

36

Apparently, those in Jesus’ hometown did not show enough worship, so fewer people were healed of various ailments.The passage seems to imply that worship has a beneficial effect on those worshipping. Maybe Benny Hinn is on to something after all? :wink:

37

Shodan, you read more into my words than I put there.

If I had said

Of course, I believe it stands to reason that at least during the period they are sitting in church, they aren’t giving blow jobs

that would have said absolutely nothing about their predilection for or abhorrence of oral sex in their homes, cars, rectories, etc.

I was attempting to raise a valid point about word usage. That is, by using the term worship to describe whatever the hell a group is doing, use of that particular term presupposes that there is an object of their worship.

Building community - the supposed alternative definition offered in the OP, may be a worthwhile and satisfying exercise. Sports teams do it, and it is a goal of block parties and fraternal organizations. But it is not worship.

Of course, since you are so adept at reading into plain language what isn’t there, you are no doubt able to divine the truth out of whatever words are used.

38

Originally posted by Newcrasher:

**
Forgive me first, for I like to expatiate on an issue at the start, before giving my own reaction.

The purpose of worship, from the official teachings of religions like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, is both to build community and to honor God.

However, in regard to God worship is understood differently by each of these three religions.

What I consider the most primitive of worship of God is that of the Catholic worship in the Mass where there is a sacrificial victim slaughtered and offered to God to make Him happy, namely, in Jesus’ crucifixion being re-enacted sacramentally.

In Islam and in post-Temple Judaism there is no such primitive transaction, but worship is basically telling God or reminding God that man is cognizant of His excellence and that man owes everything to Him, or in three directions: to recognize His supremacy, to express man’s complete dependency on Him, and to apologize to Him for any offenses. All these acts are done by expressing sentiments of the heart and mind, but without sacrifice of any human or animal victim.

In regard to man of course all three religions will admit that the purpose of organized worship is to build community.
What I say above represents the professed teachings of the three monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Now, Newcrasher is asking which is more important, building community or honoring God? And the official answer I am sure from any of the three religions is logically the honoring of God. Logically, because God is the raison d’etre of everything, and in worship He is the prima donna, the hero, the star in the limelight.

If you ask the legal profession from judges to trial lawyers what is the primary purpose of the court, to explain the law or to dispense justice, they will all answer in unison: to dispense justice. So also with worship, the primary purpose is to honor God, and in the process to build community.
But as in everything engaged in by people, including law and religion, the heart and mind of each character must be examined by each person himself and by students of human psychology covering man’s behavior and motivation, in order to know what his more keenly pursued agendas really are.

My impression is that in the heart and mind of each worshipper, his primary purpose might be to socialize, to engage in all kinds of relational contacts with fellow worshippers, like to know who come and in what garb and cosmetic grooming, to show off his wealth and superior tastes, to look for a suitable mate, to exercise his lungs and vocal cords in the production of better sounds enviable to others, to engage in conversation with others for all the possible ends of conversation.

Susma Rio Sep

39

I forgot to add:

On my own part, and I have been to Catholic worship for most of my lifetime and to a lot of Protestant worship service. I believe that my impression stated in the previous post is correct. But I must add that there are very good worshippers who believe that when two or three are gathered together in His name, He will be present. That is the community part. And they also believe that they are giving God all the praise that God wants in all ways aceptable to Him in their religion by attending their worship service.

If it’s up to me, I would rather worship God by myself and in my own way, at my own time, and in my own place and circumstances. Now, I want everyone to know that I talk with God all the time, we have known each other from way back when I dawned up conscious reflection and the knowledge of God. But He never talks back to me the way I talk to Him. Maybe He’s finding it impossible to communicate with me.

Now, about why I go to organized worship service at all, it is because I enjoy it when I do want to go; and my wife and kids they want to go, specially my wife, every Sunday unless more urgent matters should have cropped up on a Sunday.

Do I worship God, give Him honor? Sure, honestly I do. You ask Him, and tell me what He tells you.

And the community thing, yes that’s very important for me also, to get to see and talk with fellow church members and friends and family people, at least on a weekend and as often as they do attend worship service. Of course in a religious nonetheless social atmosphere.

Susma Rio Sep

40

UU checking in (thanks for the heads up, Shodan). UU’s worship, but we worship in different ways. For those that don’t believe in a diety, it is a time for personal reflection. Worship services in general serve the purpose of both personal worship and of community-building. I don’t think we’ve ever claimed to be much else (at least the UU churches I’ve attended).

Does that help?

Esprix