I already agreed with you that ‘worship’ presupposes an Object to be worshipped. (Esprix seems to disagree - hi, Esprix. )
That having been said, what exactly does this have to do with the OP?
If your point is that people who are worshipping are wasting time that could be spent on good works, I have already pointed out that this is not the case - worship (in my church) includes a big dose of encouragement and instruction in good works, as well as the donation of gifts (financial, musical, and so forth) as part of the service. So we are doing good works while we worship.
So I think you are over-estimating my ability to derive meaning from your posts - I don’t know what your point is.
Esprix is a UU - as am I. Well, I was for a long time. Not sure I am anymore.
IMO - and many other UUs I know, worship is not the proper term for what UUs do. Or at least ought to do. Of course, that gets into the whole “God-language” debate which was part of my initial post. I feel that the meaning of words is important. And worship has a commonly agreed upon meaning. Of course, acolytes of Humpty-Dumpty stridently disagree.
My side of the language usage debate seems to be losing overwhelmingly. As the UUA markets itself more aggressively by increasingly emulating christianity-lite, services in member “churches” more and more resemble worship. Fuzzy worship, but worship nonetheless. Heck, if it makes you feel happy, its got to be good.
something i’ve wondered about for a long time…Jesus was Jewish. Ok. How can people who are not Jewish (i.e. Baptist, Catholics, etc.) worship Jesus, who was Jewish?..this doesn’t make any sense to me at all. i’m not trying to piss anybody off or anything, i just want a good answer, and i’m sure there is one that i’m missing…So please fill me in.
I don’t think there is a special purpose to all coming to service at once. There might be a reason but I doubt there is a purpose.
People go to church because that is where God is at. It’s the temple, it’s his house.
Why does everybody go at the same time?
Probably stems from this day of rest thingy, it’s when everybody is available for service. In other religions it’s quite normal to go and do your temple worshipping when you feel like it and/or have the time. Like in catholic regions where people still nip off to church, just to light a candle or say a quick prayer.
I am not pissed off, but I don’t quite see what difference it makes what religion Jesus is.
Christians worship Jesus because He is God, that is, He is the embodiment of how God relates to us and a teacher and example of how we are to relate to God and to each other. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Jewish religion, what we refer to as Messiah.
In Christian doctrine, the Old Testament is the story of how God chose and prepared a group of people to be the ones that brought forth His Son, who is to be a blessing to all nations. The whole purpose of the Jewish ceremonial law is therefore to keep the Jewish people from intermingling their culture and religion with the peoples of the region in which they settled. Then, when the time came (oddly, it was a time during which the Jews were conquered and occupied people under Roman domination), Jesus founded His religion, which was the consummation of the ethical mono-theism of Judaism.
Almost all of the first converts to Christianity were Jews - all the apostles, the thousands mentioned in Acts on Pentecost, and many others. One of the most prominent of the new converts was Saul of Tarsus, who was renamed Paul. He was then chosen as the apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter was the apostle to the Jews. Paul was enormously more successful than Peter, and there were huge controversies in the early Church over how much, if any, of the Jewish ceremonial law Gentile converts were obliged to keep - should they be circumcized, and so forth. The discussion was basically whether Christianity was going to remain a sect within Judaism, or include all converts on a more-or-less equal basis.
After a good deal of back and forth, it was decided that Gentile converts would be treated much as earlier converts to Judaism - the “god-fearers” who admired the moral part of the Jewish law and were monotheists, but did not accept circumcision or keep the ceremonial law. The centurion in Luke 7:1-10 may have been one of these, and many early converts belonged to that class.
Add to that the general rejection of Christianity by mainstream Judaism mentioned in Acts 13:42-52, and the development of Christianity as a separate religion was accelerated.
I am not sure if this answers your question. Please clarify if it does not.
I’ve been to many UU churches in my day, and each one has its own flavor, but I daresay the majority of the ones I’ve attended have not been trying to emulate Christianity. When has the UUA been “marketing itself as Christianity-lite?”
I have no doubt that if UUs were to sit and debate the meaning of the word “worship” we would talk forever, as it’s what we love to do best. Still, I think it’s a matter of tradition or “common use” or whatever you want to call it - even if, individually, some of us aren’t actually conducting the business of worshipping something, and are instead called to congregate only because of personal need or community building or what have you, we still call it a “worship service” because that’s what everyone else calls a Sunday morning gathering in a church.
I can accept that each UU “worships” in his or her own way, whether they are actually worshipping something or not. Sometimes the squirrels outside the window are more interesting than the sermon being delivered from the pulpit, after all…
How does “a vocabularly of reverence” and “traditional religious language” translate into “Christianity-lite?” I’m still not getting your point. Maybe I need to read the entire article…
At my Church, which is held weekly in my living room (tonight, as luck would have it!) we worship because we are genuinely WANT to thank God. God is providing for us on a daily basis and I personally can feel his affects in my life and see them in others lives. We worship God because we are thankful for what he does for us.
I do not consider singing to be the only form of worship. I believe that every time we do anything that is pleasing to God we are acknowledging his wisdom and presence.
I used to be a Baptist, and a very religious or as I like to call it hypocritical Baptist. I worshiped because everyone else was. I did “good” things because I thought it would curry favor with other “Christians”. I now consider my actions as not only foolish, but also selfish and not of any real significance to God other than perhaps his displeasure with them.
I would now consider myself a follower of Christ. I do not place judgement on what others do while they are in the place I was (Baptist congregation or any other denomination for that matter) however in that atmosphere I was only there to please others and not God. From other people I have spoken with, they have also experienced the same thing. Worship should be conducted FOR God and for no-one else. This can be done as a group or as an individual. Works that appear to be “worship” can also be done as a group or as an individual which have no reason but to build ones self up in front of man!
The purpose of Worship? None. Worship is a result, a result of purposely living with God as your co-pilot (Yes yes, I know, I crashed in the Andes and had to eat him too ) and because of all that he does for me I desire to worship him. If you don’t WANT to worship God… what are you doing at a worship service?
(I’m not trying to be overly judgmental, only to the point that I judge myself. I have asked myself these questions over and over, sometimes I can’t answer them!)
I don’t think I can summarize the purpose of worship service as it applies to the church or a religion as a whole but I can offer my reasons for attending services each week. Participating in worship service allows me to focus my mind and spirit on my relationship with God. Through the reading of scriptures, prayers, singing of hymns, and communion I am reminded of the principles of my faith and of God’s goodness and mercy. By listening to the homily, I am often challenged to approach scripture in new ways or encouraged in facing daily struggles. Through announcements and fellowship, I reconnect with other members of the congregation and learn of opportunities to be involved with work in the larger community.
Most of all, attending worship brings a deep sense of peace to my life.
Actually, Jesus specifically recommended that His followers gather into groups to pray together - see Matthew 18:19-20.
Ahh, no.
That verse:
Matthew:
19: Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Specifically 2 or 3 it does not say 2 or more. Not quite what I would call prayer in church or public. The bigger question I think you should ask is why is it when even 2 or 3 of you ask for “any thing” of god it doesn’t come true even though Jesus says it will. Another one of those neat verses open for scientific inquiry.
The passage cited does not ban public worship for Christians. It bans making a show of your piety for the purposes of self-aggrandization.
If that worship includes prayer (and we all know it does) then the verse I mentioned does ban it.
It has to do with your motives - the reason you are doing something, rather than what you are doing.
Read Matthew 6: 5-6 again. Jesus did not say that you should only pray in church with a pure heart he said not to do it at all. In fact he gave instructions to pray in private in your closet. Nowhere in that chapter does he say public prayer is ok. Perhaps he is not only concerned with hypocrisy but also the appearance of impropriety. I don’t doubt that there is some contradicting verse (Jesus is full of them) that allows public prayer, but the one you cited isn’t on of them.
Jesus tells us specifically to make witness to the world (Matthew 10:27), and even tells us to do good works in public (Matthew 5:14-16)
That he does, as mentioned he also tells you to play with deadly snakes, heal the sick and drink poison (Mark 16: 17-18). When is the last time you did any of that? Not to mention the fact that you guys are worshiping on the wrong day of the week and each time god just gets madder and madder.
I’ve been to many UU churches in my day, and each one has its own flavor, but I daresay the majority of the ones I’ve attended have not been trying to emulate Christianity. When has the UUA been “marketing itself as Christianity-lite?”
) and because of all that he does for me I desire to worship him. If you don’t WANT to worship God… what are you doing at a worship service?