Is Your Religious Service turning into a rockshow?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I work in t.v. I’m a cameraman, but I dabble in editing. I’m not very good at it at all. It’s kind of like saying Idi Amin dabbles in Human Rights. It just doesn’t gel. Anyway, a kind and good friend came unto me a week or so ago. He sayeth unto me,

I agree. He’s a good man and I’m glad to help him out. He delivers unto me a box. Said box is not bejeweled, nor painted with icons. Said box has the magical mystical words emblazoned on the side, " Amazon.com". I wisely did not ask why this kind and good man travelled all the way to South America for a cardboard box when his local spirits purveyor could have helped him out.

What I was handed, now that I’m done being a wisenheimer, was a collection of DVD’s and VHS’s. All slickly done. Some computer generated shows of music and starry-spacey shots. One that is incredibly high in production value, it is called literally The Jesus Film, and took several years to shoot.

As I worked with the material, making a show out of different clips and creating softly transitioning slideshows from photos and music, it occurred to me that this fellow, this kind and good man was not unique. If he handed me this box of slickly produced professional media that is wholly religious in its basis, then the possiblity exists that for a lot of people, going to your house of worship means sitting/standing and experiencing the same thing that people experienced when attending Live Aid, or a Rolling Stones show. Huge video projected images, loud well-mixed “sound track”. Sometimes a live speaker, talking over images that you are watching.

What is it like in your house of worship? Let us, for the purposes of this question/poll, completely eliminate Organ/Choir/Live Musicians from the query. That has been a part of group prayer for thousands of years, that is not the source of my O.P. What is it like where you go to pray, if you go? Or, what have you seen in others’ houses of worship?

Although I am glad to help out my friend, I find the idea rather distasteful. It smacks of the M.T.V. Generation, grown up and going to pray and needing to watch t.v. to do it, with a pounding soundtrack to keep them going. Is this unique to this fellow’s congregation, or not?

Now, this is in IMHO for a reason. It’s a poll, I am asking what people see and do. I am also sharing my humble opinion on the topic. It is not meant as a slam to anybody’s religious feelings, faith or belief systems, ok? No flaming, pitting or witnessing in here.

To me, the experience is a fairly quiet one. In fact, it is silent because I attend Quaker Meeing. That is not the norm, most religious meetings of some kind have spoken words and chanted prayers. My personal feeling is that the kind of multi-media experience I have just burned to DVD whilst writing this OP has no place in a house of prayer.

There are times when video is sent over cable or satellite into houses of worship, so that a worldwide audience can participate as a group in a meeting or prayer service. That’s not what I am addressing, I like the idea of using technology to reach those who cannot otherwise find contact with a larger group. ( I didn’t use to feel this way. People change. :slight_smile: ).

Thoughts?

Cartooniverse

2

When I was in college I took a class on Born Again Christianity. We had to go to a “born-again” service. The one I attended absolutely blew me away. There was a rock band, huge screens projecting images, etc. It was amazing. I think the paper I wrote on it was entitled “Performance Christianity”.

I’m Jewish, and this kind of thing would be highly frowned upon - and that’s an understatement. The most you’re gonna get is maybe someone playing the (acoustic) guitar or piano, and even that would be pretty unusual. So, no. No rock shows here.

3

Wow. I’m lucky if I can get the candles to light dramatically on the first try and the incense doesn’t go out mid-ritual. I’ve used flash paper before, for effect, and a battery powered string of Christmas lights, but that’s about as high tech as we get.

I guess I don’t have a problem with technology in church in theory, but I do wonder if the congregants have an opportunity to hear the voice of the Divine underneath all that chatter. It sounds more like distraction and entertainment then religious experience.

For me, technology must serve the people and serve their worship. When I do a large group spell wherein people write something the want to get rid of on paper and burn it, I use flash paper instead of regular paper. There’s something about the dramatic “poof!” of flame that leaves a resonance in people’s hearts that magick is happening. The technology (flash paper) serves the congregant. It leaves them a little bit in awe of the process and their Divine power, but I don’t think it goes so far as to be trickery. In your instance, I’d be more in awe of the videographer and editor than thinking about or being in awe of God, so I don’t think it serves. IMHO, YMMV, etc.

WhyNot,
High EpiscoPagan

4

Yeah, Kyla. I was raised Jewish ( with a smidgen of Quaker…but that’s another thread entirely ) and I hear you. MAYBE an acoustic guitar if your Cantor or Rabbi was feeling daring. Otherwise, a Cantor/Choir and that’s it. Anything else would really be anathema.

5

The church my grandmother’s funeral was at was really big and new and shiny and it had a drumset with Plexiglass around it and a really extensive sound system. The service wasn’t too ridiculous, seeing as it was, y’know, a funeral, but I could imagine what regular services were like there.

6

Yup, services at my church are slowly turning into a mult-eye-media extravaganza, but mostly by increments so small that nobody can reasonably object.

7

But… do you object?

8

I’ll preface this by saying that we’re a young, relatively liberal family, the type of people I suspect these “performance Christianity” (I like that!) services are geared toward. Our church (rural Texas Methodist) recently implemented a second Sunday morning service, dubbed the contemporary service. This service consists of “praise” music with live (rather awful) guitar/drum accompaniment, in lieu of traditional hymns with paino or organ music. The praise music lyrics are projected in a power point presentation which, as often as not, is in the wrong order or contains spelling and/or punctuation errors. The doxology has been replaced by a basket at the alter into which members can drop their “offerings”. Granted, they’re still ironing out the wrinkles, but as you can probably sense, I am not terribly impressed. We will be attending the traditional service for the foreseeable future.

9

There seem to be two basic types of religious expression. One is quiet, solemn, and dignified. The other is noisy and, I guess, cathartic. My only first-hand experience is with the former, but I run into a lot of the latter while channel surfing. I don’t much care for the multimedia extravaganzas that outfits like Lakewood Church (in Houston, soon to be moving into the former basketball arena!), but I understand the desire to inject some noise into services. Black people seem to be having a lot better time at their churches (again, if TV is to be believed; I’ve never actually been to a black church) than I ever had at the First Congregational Church I grew up in.

10

I think one can be noisy and cathartic and still be in touch with the Holy Spirit or whathaveyou. The Quakers are only silent until they’re moved to…well…move. Most of our neopagan celebrations involve lots of singing and dancing and trance work that is quite charismatic. But the difference I see between the OP and these (and the “black churches” on TV, generally Baptist) are that the noise and stimulation is created by the people. Our joy and celebration of God/dess moves us to sing, to dance, to praise and to love life joyously. Watching a movie is…well…entertainment. It’s being passive, instead of actively loving God. I hope some people find it fufilling. I wouldn’t.

That said, it’s awfully hard to get people inspired. I have to push so much energy into everything I lead to get people out of their mundane realities and into sacred space. It would be much easier to push play on the Powerpoint and sit down for a while. But I think it would be doing us all, myself included, a disservice. Real devotion takes energy and focus, whether it’s quiet and solemn or noisy and raucous. Otherwise, you might as well be at a business meeting.

11

Catholic here, and we don’t have anything like what you’re describing with multi-media and rock music and such.

However, we do have FOLK MASS. I’m sure if you asked the folk mass musicians, some of them might claim to “rock out.” However, rest assured, it’s not really rocking by the standards of the rest of the free world. It is very endearing.

12

I’m not answering for Mangetout. However, Yes, I Object. My parents’ church has been getting progressively “rockier”, and I dislike going there anymore. It was bad enough when they gave up traditional hymns for the happy-clappy, Barney-like “praise choruses” but the drums and mindless lyrics has just gotten to be too much. There’s a small movement at my church to “update” the services, but thank goodness, it’s only the Sunday evening service so far.

13

No, my church sticks with the organ and piano, and hymns–preferably ones with lots of doctrine in them. A special day might include people from the congregation playing a piece on the flute or violin or something, but guitars and drums aren’t even allowed in the chapel–you’d do the more modern music on a weeknight, not in a church service.

My friends go to a church that does the contemporary thing–in fact the husband was in charge of the AV for a long time–and I went with them recently. The music was very different, very praise-worship sort of stuff, much more performance-oriented since they had a band and three singers, and there was a movie screen at the front where the words were projected in a PowerPoint presentation. A summary of the pastor’s sermon was also shown as he spoke. I can see what they’re trying to do; they’re working on evoking a very different feeling than what my church does. Mine wants a meditative, reverent, thoughtful feeling, while they want a modern version of ecstatic worship, a sort of “yay, God!” feeling in their music. Both are valid, and I felt that their service was pleasant and acceptable, but I wouldn’t want to do it every Sunday. (Their service was not, however, a multi-media extravaganza–it was sort of in the middle.)

My friends say that they like the contemporary music, and that young people aren’t attracted by hymns and only want the sort of thing they’re used to hearing. Old-fashioned, plainer services are seen as off-putting to a younger generation (that is, anyone under 35) who want more rock-y music and something interesting to look at. I can see their PoV, but I think it would be nice to cultivate an appreciation for hymns, traditional music, and meditative worship as well.

14

Minor nitpick: Quakers don’t move. That’s Shakers. You can either stand and Share, or sit still and Share if so moved to Share. The only thing that breaks the absolute silence is spoken word. Movement is optional. I spent quite a few years attending as a child in Philly, and now as an adult in New York. I can say with a fairly good level of certainty that you will never find a Quaker First Day Meeting that involves any kind of physical movement. Or singing. Or dance. It’s just not how it’s done.
Some of the posts here are articulating my OP better than I did- a frequent occurrence here :slight_smile: Yes, it’s the electronic/passive element that dismays me, as much as the rock 'n roll aspect. You wanna scream out, sing, dance, clap and make noise? Right on !! Whatever works for you and your group. My negative reaction is to the passive nature of watching t.v., when others might be actively singing, dancing, moving ( or not ) but at least the level of involvement is real, and immediate. Not passive, and just by dint of watching a PowerPoint presentation considered participation.

It is not. If you go to a rock show, and sing along, enjoy the experience with those around you ( friend or stranger ), dance or what have you, then you are actively involved. If you watch the Video I-Mag projectors and just sit there, you are not “engaged”

If you feel so moved to attend a religious event, then it dismays me that it’s becoming passive in some congregations. I don’t mean to disparage what anyone is doing, or feeling, or promoting, okay?? Honest. I’m just grappling with my reaction to what appears to me- a fairly non-religious fellow- to be a dilution of the intimacy that can occur when you are a group of people, led by a human, inspired by live human singers who are frequently your wives, husbands and children and parents.
WhyNot, the last paragraph of your post seems very important here.

15

I see that one other Catholic has already chimed in. We Catholics are a traditional lot. Suffice it to say that the world’s oldest centralized bureaucratic organization is resistant to change. (Much in the same why my truck is resistant to me picking it up.) I take some odd comfort in knowing that I am saying almost exactly the same things in mass that my great-great-great-great-great-grandparents did and in the same order they did. The only major change being we now do so in the local language (as apposed the 1900+ year tradition of conducting the religious ceremony in a language the celebrant could barely speak and 90% of congregation couldn’t understand).

In my experience there have been no slide projections; no video clips and certainly no laser light shows. Most congregations only discovered that instruments other than the organ and piano existed in about 1970. By the eighty’s a very select few has progressed to allowing one mass a week to use an electric guitar and drums. Mind you the songs didn’t change, just the accompaniment.

My wife, also a life long catholic, reports of a church in Denver, which took full advantage of its distance from Rome. According to her, in early-eighties this church routinely made use of liturgical dancers!?!? These were women from the local Polynesian Restaurant who did the Hula and Fire dancing. The owner of the restaurant was a big contributor to the church. So occasionally they had liturgical fire dancing :eek: This rather amazing deviation from the norm makes a bit more sense when you learn that in the mid-eighties the priest announced to his flock one Sunday that he was leaving the priesthood to become and actor. A short while later he became a leading man on General Hospital.

The parish I currently attend is very, very conservative. No guitar, no drums, no flute, instruments other than piano or organ. The closest we get to AV are the microphones and speakers.

16

dangermom, I didn’t respond properly to what you said just before, so I’m doubleposting. :smiley:

Indeed- if it works, then it works. If a glitzy multi-media extravaganza evokes spirituality in an honest and meaningful way, then great. I’m out of line and that’s cool, I am not exactly oozing religious faith here.

I very much sense that it does not, however. It seems that a part of religion is respect for, and upholding of, traditions. Spoken, sung and whatnot. If the younger kids crave a show- but leave having felt something spiritual in the process, then cool.

To me, it’s like my kids wanting the stereo on when they study. How can they focus and be centered with such distraction? How can one attain what one wishes to in a religious environment ( whatever that may be ), with a full-blown show happening before one’s eyes? Hmmm. This is rapidly approacing G.D. status, and if a Mod needs to move it, that’s fine by me. I just feel so strongly that people- even young people- should have the benefit of the traditions and rhythms that are a part of any religion. That in of itself should hold and uplift them.

17

I’m Calvinist (Christian Reformed), and if I recall my religious history correctly, John Calvin frowned upon even singing hymns in church. But in my youth, it was always the blue Psalter Hymnal in the mornings, and the more contemporary red Praise! Hymnal in the evenings. And when the red hymnal was introduced in the late 70s, you can believe there was some head shaking from the older folks. The only thing that was used as accompaniment was either organ or piano.

But in the past decade or so, we’ve gone from the occasional “outside” instrument (meaning not a piano or organ; a trumpet, for instance) at the Sunday evening service, to full blown drum solos at the morning service.

Well, maybe I exaggerate a little, but even a little snare drum and cymbol seems waaaaay out of place to me in church, and might as well be friggin’ John Bonham pounding out “Moby Dick.”

So now, at age 29, it would appear I’m one of those “older folks” shaking his head. Luckily we haven’t had any lasers introduced into the service yet.

Happy

18

:smack: d’oh! Of course it is. And I knew that, too. Brain fart. So sorry to expound ignorance!

I think so too. Inspiration is hard work, and I think we need to use whatever tools actually inspire people, but I also see lots of congregants not being clear with their leaders what works and what doesn’t. They shrug it off, or wander away to a new church, leaving their leaders wondering what went wrong. Politeness and respect have their places, but you also need to be honest and vocal about what’s working for you and what isn’t. I think it’s important to have these discussions within your church, or circle or whatever. Only by discussing things like this can we make sure that our religion and religious services are meeting the needs both of our people *and * the Divine. Tradition is important, but (like technology) only insofar as it serves. If it doesn’t serve (IMHO) ditch it, but for goodness sakes, don’t ditch it in favor of something else that doesn’t serve! :stuck_out_tongue:

(Can you tell I’ve thought about and talked about this so much that the word “serve” is surrounded by little airquotes in my speech? When you’re a leader in a religion that literally has *no * tradition over 50 years old, you gotta work things out for yourself!)

19

I am Catholic as well; most folk masses are quite folky. I have been to a couple of parishes, however, where some light rock was incorporated into worship services, with electric guitars, keyboards, and drums. I enjoyed it highly. I can see how some could potentially be offended though. :cool:

20

I’m Orthodox, and we don’t allow any musical instruments, not even organs. Well, a very few Greek churches in the US have organs, but they are considered an abomination by everybody else and most people would like to see them go. Byzantine churches will call the people to prayer with bells or a semandron (which is a wooden plank hit with a hammer), but that’s the extent of our instrumentation. Oriental Orthodox have a bit more leeway with instrumentation: Copts and Ethiopians will accompany their chants with daff, cymbals, or triangle, and Syrians will occasionally use an organ or flute, but that’s it.