Hell I’d go off on this guy for thinking he is the second coming of some wicked civil rights leader that is doing everyone a favor by dating out of his own race :rolleyes: but I can’t help but laugh my ass off for his use of grammar that really isn’t all that good. Oh well I’d rather see what is on PBS right now that listen to this guy.
Look past skin colour. All women are “pink”. Learn to know people for more than outward apperances. IMHO some people can have beautiful bodys and ugly souls.
Look out! The word “predictable” when referring to any particular race is going to get you flamed around here. “Truly racist”? I’ve heard some truly racist comments before. Please quote the one you apparently read.
Then why post about it? And in Great Debates, no less? And it doesn’t bring any accolades from anyone? You seem awefully proud of the fact.
Please see your above quote where you label someone a racist.
Alright, “dude”, I’ll try to keep everything in the common vernacular. Could you be any MORE vague in your posts, please? When you use words like “SOME”, “the typical ‘angry black male’”, and other various vague pronouns, you just seem to be performing literary masturbation. Make your point.
And I will take a moment to laugh at you who obviously thinks that a person who posts about their interracial dates is attempting some kind of ‘enlightenment’ of another culture.
So if you don’t think there is a shortage of bigots, would you be so kind as to name a few names? Or at least link us to a few threads? I think you have taken a wrong turn somewhere.
somehow, i think i’ve been called a racist. no, i’m not an angry Black man, I’m an Angry Mixed Asian Man–a less prevalent stereotype to be sure, but i’m working on pushing it into our consciousness…
the thing about the SDMB is that it’s overwhelmingly white. which means that it’s written for a white audience. something like the OP is expressly directed toward other white people and the thought that it might be read by people of color seems never to be considered. how are we supposed to feel when we read drivel like that (and the couple of other congratulatory posts)? happy? excited for you?
the thing is, white guys have always fucked women of color. the example you might be most familiar with is the situation in American slavery. other examples exist all over the world where colonial masters took advantage of their power to enjoy a little bit of the “native” lifestyle. you might look at military bases today in the Third World to see young American men “exploring” different cultures in the back room of a whorehouse. or i could just stay on the SDMB and read some pointless back-slapping frat boy stories about all the many kinds of women you’ve fucked!
all this glorious “cross-cultural” fucking and yet white peole continue to run the world? hmmm. i would have thought the system would have broken down by now with all these lovely ethnic tour guides providing you white guys with insight into our cultures.
no. the reality is that white men continue to enjoy huge privilege. you having sex with women of color does not change the reality of oppression. the way some of you objectify them (drachillix and Adventurious82) leads me to believe that this is just another facet of that privilege. many women of color have been socialized to believe that white men are more attractive, more interesting, more virile than men of color; that marrying a white guy is part of the American dream. do you talk about marrying these women and leading an inter-cultural lifestyle? no–you’re too excited to talk about “dating” all these women, which is really just a code word for “fucking.” the fact is, the overwhelming majority of you white guys will end up marrying white women.
what’s the message? same as it has always been. you all are willing to fuck (“date”) women of color as a youthful diversion, but you’ll probably end up with a white woman. you’ll stoop to our level for some action, but you won’t stoop down here to really understand us and you’d never really want to trade places with a Black guy (relieve yourself of some of that privilege). you’re so enlightened because you have discovered that women of color are beautiful and interesting! men of color already know this. so keep it amongst yourselves. this is a public forum and i don’t need to read it.
by the way, instead of knee-jerking into a ridiculous accusation of racism (which some of us take more seriously than you do, obviously) when somebody disagrees with you, why don’t you read this with an open mind? you remember, that open mind you so happily trumpeted in the OP…
Though the OP may be a little pointless, and a little focused on race, I think it’s pretty harmless.
He’s found someone he loves, and that happens to also teach him more about someone else’s culture. What is wrong with that?
Hoo, boy…
And you know this… how?
I promise that I have never and will never post such a story.
This, sadly, is often true - I’ve seen it way too many times. Fortunately, it’s not true for all. (On the plus side, it works in my favor. ;))
I promise that I will never, ever do this.
I promise that I have never and will never do either of these things.
As you say, this is a public forum, so if you don’t want to read it, don’t - around here we encourage people not to read, not not to post if they find something they don’t like (or, alternately, take it to The Pit).
Esprix
damn, ** Esprix**, why are you picking on me? i didn’t even bother to talk any shit after you mentioned for at least the 400th time that you like to fuck Asian guys.
and why do i bother to remember little personal factoids like this anyways?
telling me not to read something that has a somewhat interesting title is pretty useless–maybe you can take your own advice and just skip my eventual complaints…
as for the racial composition of the SDMB, i’m really just guess-timating from my several months spent here. i would say it’s at least 90% white. perhaps diverse to some folks. for someone from Los Angeles, living in Oakland, 90% is a pretty huge number.
whenever we get into a race discussion, it seems like most of the responses aren’t from people of color. i’m always reading, “my friend who is…” or “my boyfriend is…” or “i know somebody who…”
i understand that many POC stay away from these messes, but still. i’m just doing my best to give you the raw, uncut straight from the source!
Having posted both this:
and this:
. . . I can assure the OP’er that we are in no danger of experiencing a shortage of bigotry so long as he continues to post.
HAPA:
This doesn’t follow. How does a person’s color affect who they are writing “for”? You’re a mixed Asian male; does that mean that you only post “for” other mixed Asian males?
Even if this were true, so what? What’s the argument here? That mixed racial dating should be discouraged because it’s based on some history or colonialism? Even though the discouragement of it is also a manifestation of racism? Are you saying that all (or even most) mixed racial dating is exploitive of the non-white participant? Surely you see how patronizing and unempowering this is for people of color. What precisely are you saying?
Again, I’m confused: If inter-racial dating is a facet of oppression, are you, as an mixed-race individual, in favor of it or against it?
Surely you see that the socialization of young women of color can hardly be blamed entirely on whites – especially if those young women of color are being raised, as most are, in families of color and neighborhoods of color.
I’m certainly not defending the OP, but I don’t think you can glean from it that a person who speaks of “dating” is against marriage (as opposed to just not married yet, or married right now), nor can you assume that “dating” is code for “fucking.” If you talk of going out with a woman or dating her, are you talking only about sex? Why would you assume the OP thinks or talks in such terms? Just because he’s white?
So what? If a white man falls in love with a white woman, why shouldn’t he marry her? Now you are making gross generalizations about the motivations of all white men (that white men entertain themselves with women of color, but do not want serious relationships with them because of some inherent white racism). You have zero right to do judge all men of any color in such a way, and it comes across as far more racist that the rather benign idiocy of the OP.
My point was that since this is, as you say, a public message board, the whole point is for people to post their opinions, and you, the reader, in turn are invited to respond with your agreement or disagreement and discuss; otherwise, such a board could not exist. So telling people with whom you disagree that they should not “inconvenience” you by posting those things not only defeats the purpose of us being here, but makes you look rather small-minded. After all, as has been said many times, no one is holding a gun to your head to read and/or respond to every single thread - surely none of us have that much time.
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just curious where you drew your conclusions.
Well, between you and WMitH I feel like I’m down with the brothers. :rolleyes:
Oh, and Jodi? You rock.
Esprix
Will everyone please just stop posting here and get back to fucking people of other races so that all the kids come out a nice shade of amber!!! C’mon, we have hundreds of generations of segretation and colonialism to overcome!!!
Sua
[sub]don’t mean to exclude you, Spree 
[/sub]
Thank you, Jodi. Some day I wanna be just like you. ;o)
amazing how easily the word “racist” is being bandied about in this debate. I take that word very seriously. I guess some of you do not.
what did I use as evidence for my little tirade? nothing but what the posters gave me (and the statistic that 98% of American marriages are not interracial. which means, yes, chances are, these white guys will marry white women-—that wasn’t an assumption.). who was I talking about in my tirade? the people who posted here.
please remember Jodi, that you are the person who took my statements and applied them to ALL white men involved in interracial dating. obviously, I can’t be against interracial dating or I wouldn’t exist. I have no problem with truly open-minded respectful people of all colors sharing and learning from one another. do I think the yahoos in this post fall into that category? no. there is a certain kind of white man (the kind who would enthusiastically respond to a post like this) who exhibits all the characteristics I’m complaining about. I would add that they are a (thankfully) small group, but a relatively vocal one. I felt like they should hear a different point of view…
it’s called internalized racism. if you’d like examples, I can give plenty.
of course I can’t (nor did I) say that all or most interracial dating is exploitative. does it have the potential to be? absolutely.
think of another factor besides race that helps determine social standing: class. would you argue that “inter-class” relationships aren’t often exploitative? aren’t poor people led to believe that rich people are smarter than them, better than them? race works in similar ways. enter the white standard of beauty and you’ve got another big factor. when one person has more access to power and/or wealth, how can that not enter the dynamics of a relationship? when one person has been socialized to think that they are less worthy than the other, does exploitation become possible?
how this is patronizing or “unempowering” is beyond me. you’re saying I should be more supportive of interracial relationships in order to empower people to make choices that might not be healthy for them? I’m not putting people in disempowering positions—I’m just talking about it.
actually, just because he’s a man. I don’t think the lucky women who made these checklists were just good friends or acquaintances.
here I did my best to try and contextualize my argument and you removed much of that context to question my points. can you really disagree with my ideas (most of which are pretty wishy-washy and far from absolute) or do you just find them troubling?
But it is an unsubstantiated claim. Got a cite for this?
Esprix
What’s the point of this thread? Near as I can tell, the only Great Debate is over what the original poster’s intent in making such a statement truly was.
HAPA –
I assure you that I take the word very seriously and do not “bandy” it about lightly. I did not say you were a racist; I said your comments came across as racist. I continue to think that they did.
I suggest anyone who thinks this is correct merely go back and read your “little tirade.” Your extrapolations on colonialism and dating = fucking have no basis in anything said by the OP, or by anyone else. You also very clearly did not limit your remarks to “the people who posted here.”
Again, anyone who imagines this to be true only needs to read your own words to find it is not. YOU were the one who said “white guys have always fucked women of color” and “white people continue to run the world” and “white men continue to enjoy huge privilege” and “dating = fucking” and all the rest of it, posted right there for everyone to see. If you feel that I have misuderstood when you are talking about white men, meaing all white men, and white men, meaning only the specific white men posting here, I would submit that your post does not make that distinction as cleary as you seem to think.
Again, far be it from me to defend the inanity of the OP, but it does not support your furious assertion that even the OP’er and others who posted here date women of color only to use them or fuck them. Nobody said anything supporting that conclusion, and if you feel they did, please point it out.
Your comment about internalized racism is non-responsive to my point, which was that if such things as internalized racism exist, then it is unfair of you to implicitly blame whites alone for teaching children of color that it is better to be white.
I continue to be confused. Why would you post a sentence such as “white guys have always fucked women of color,” and then reference slavery and colonialism, except to imply that sex with women of color by white men is inherently exploitive? Again, if that was not your point, what was? Surely you see that a rant that includes reference to slavery, colonialism, and the historical sexual using of women of color would not lead me, as a reader, to assume that you do not consider most interracial dating to be exploitative.
I would certainly argue that if you are dealing with two consenting adults of different classes, we have no right to assume that one is “exploiting” the other, just as we have no right to assume that one partner in an interracial relationship is exploiting the other. I see no reason to generalize that such relationships “often are” or are not exercises in exploitation, which seems to me to be an obvious insult to everyone participating in such a relationship.
Boy, I’d hope not. In any event, and once again, I would not assume that a person dating a more wealthy person is doing so because the poorer person thinks the richer person is smarter or better than she (or he) – just as I would not assume that a black woman dates a white man because she thinks he’s “better” than she is, or better than a black man is. Again, I’m at a loss to imagine how you cannot see how insulting this presumption is to every woman of color in such a relationship, implying as it does that she did not enter into that relationship freely and out of love, and further implying that by staying in such a relationship she is allowing herself to be exploited.
Are you serious? Again, you see no insult in implying that while white men are “using” women of color for sex, women of color are “using” white men for power and/or wealth? Why can’t they be going out just because they like each other?
I’d go with “possible;” I won’t go with “probable” – especially since you continue to imply strongly that women of color are making such decisions based on socialization and wealth and power – as opposed to making them from the heart or based on phyical attraction or interests in common. Again, the people this belittles are the women of color whom you refuse to grant the right to date whomever they want without making it an experiment in sociology.
I’m truly sorry to hear that, but if you do not see how granting white women the ability to date whomever they want for legitimate reasons, while limited the ability of women of color to date outside their race without second-guessing their motives for doing so is inequitable to women of color – well, I can’t explain it any better than I have.
I’m talking about assuming that every person, regardless of race, makes informed choices on dating that ought to be respected and not second-guessed as being the product of internalized racism or a quest for wealth or power.
I asked:
To which you reply:
So you are saying that for every man dating automatically equates to fucking? Next thing I know you’ll be telling me how you can’t possibly imagine that this might be an insult to other men. And my whole point is that you have no ability to say anything about the “lucky women” who dated the OP, because YOU do not KNOW what dating means to HIM. Saying “I don’t think for him it’s ‘just good friends’” only underscores my point – how would you know? You don’t.
At this point, I don’t even know what your ideas are. If they include the following:
-
That the OP or anyone else in this thread thinks dating automatically equates to fucking, either ever or even just where women of color are concerned;
-
That women of color date white men because they have been socialized to think white men are superior or to seek wealth or power, as opposed to just because they happened to like a guy who happened to be white;
-
That women of color are often sexually exploited by white men who choose to date them, which men date them solely or even primarily to sexually expliot them, and that it is therefore okay to couch general discussions of interracial dating in terms of sexual exploitation; or
-
That the fact that most white men marry white women is indicative of anything regarding other white men who might date and/or marry women of color;
Then, yes, I both disagree with your ideas and find them profoundly troubling.
Esprix, here’s a little something i found on the web (i’m a work-only poster so i can’t really run to a book). kind of scary looking at anything concerned with race on the internet–never know what kind of kook is behind it.
I apologize in advance to the mods if i’m breaking copyright laws or something here. From the May 9, 1991 Wall Street Journal (yes, it’s old, but this is census data after all) and an article titled “Interracial Marriages Increase, but Still Rare”
all i had in my memory banks was the 2% figure. i guess that actually, only 95% of white folks marry other white folks.
**Jodi **, i guess it has become clear we are not going to agree and frankly i’m exhausted from these exchanges. i will admit that i was less than explicit in differentiating between good and bad interracial dating. i think much interracial dating in the past was exploitative. i did not make a point to talk about the good kind, which was an oversight, i guess.
but i never said anything near to “all interracial dating is exploitative.” (and even when i used rhetorical questions in my last post, you jumped all over those. i don’t know how much more general i can be.)
we’ve really come down to what i’ve “implied” (you used that word 5 times last post). i wrote an angry post. depending on your reading, i could have implied many, many things. my generalizations were directed at “you,” meaning the OP and his buddies.
maybe i live in a strange world where the political world does enter the realm of relationships. i’m all for love too, but i don’t believe it occurs in a vacuum.
and now that we’ve ensured that absolutely nobody is reading anymore…
I almost married a Lutheran. Does that count?
There is a serious issue buried in all the stuff flying around here. There are still serious qualms about interracial dating/marriage, even among supposedly enlightened people.
Three personal examples:
- Several of my black female friends really dislike it when an educated black man ends up with a white woman. They have two related problems with this. First, the pool of educated black men is small and, given the rates of black males graduating from college, getting smaller. Second, the (encompassing) cultural stereotype of white women as the beauty ideal. So, my friends conclude, not only are white women hooking up with educated black men reducing black women’s chances of finding a black mate, they have difficulty compensating for the “loss” by finding a white man to be a mate;
- I was seriously involved with an Asian woman for years, and we were on the road to marriage. One obstacle was her rather strong fear that our children, being biracial, wouldn’t be “pretty”;
- I’ve heard many parents, even very enlightened ones who, when confronted with their child getting involved with a person of another race, disapproving on the grounds that any children of the union would have a troubled life.
If anyone wants to talk about these issues, maybe there is a Great Debate here.
Sua
White Male in the HOOD, I have three questions for you:
-
without making any assumptions one way or the other, I’d like to ask: what does your SN mean?
I’m trying to figure these two quotes out. The second one implies that you know about these boards. That you’ve been around, lurking for awhile, and have seen firsthand bigots on the boards. The first quote, however, seems to imply that you haven’t been around all that long. That you would automatically assume, from your very first post, that bigots would naturally flock to this thread and flame you, shows that you truly don’t understand the purpose of this site. So, which is it? Have you been lurking? If so, where are the bigots? Or is this your first time on the boards? If so, why assume the worst from the get go?
and then
Well, at least you said SOME. But you also use the word “always.” It always comes from men of color? What exactly is it that you’re learning from these cultural experiences of yours? The culture involves men too. I’m not telling you to date men if that’s not what you’re into, but I am saying you won’t ever get a full representation of “their culture” by looking at it from just the female’s perspective. And what is your point here anyway? To enflame? Because that’s the general vibe I’m getting here. You WANT people to be angry at you for dating women other than your white folk so you can turn around and chastise them for their bigotry and closed mindedness. Why?
hapa is amusing to me. kind of the resident cornell west obviously on some kind of ‘mission’ to ‘protect’ ‘HIS’ women. (although i admit i am being assumptive here and guessin hapa is ‘mixed’ with black…hapa always claims his asian heritage, but never says anything about what he is mixed with. by his ill-mannered response to anyone dating interracially…something you would THINK he would not have a problem with…unless of course he feels his asian parent ‘exploited’ his black(?) parent…?) I just wonder if hapa is one of those folks who gives an evil staredown to interracial couples he passes in the street, especially if it’s a black female on the arm of a white male? i think based on most of his statements it is fair to say hapaxl lives his life assuming the worst in others, particularly others who look different than himself.
suasponte…you seem be the only one on this thread who has gotten ‘the point’. i appreciate your efforts to clarify and draw out more specifics on what i was trying to say in my own imperfect way. thank you. i’m sorry that your asian girlfriend was not on your level. love can suck sometimes, but it’s still worth striving for…always.
enderw24…as your signature invites…consider yourself offically bitchslapped.
thanks for sharing, yall.
Someone lock this thread up please.
This isn’t a debate, it’s a pissing contest, and the OP wouldn’t know the difference anyway…
Yer pal,
Satan
*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Ten months, one day, 13 hours, 9 minutes and 29 seconds.
12301 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,537.95.
Extra life saved: 6 weeks, 17 hours, 5 minutes.
See my Sig File FAQ: http://pages.prodigy.net/briank.o/SigFAQ.htm*