Satan…go to hell and consider yourself bitchslapped as well. Why even bother adding your worthless two cents? Please resume smoking, just not around ME. Thanks!
[Moderator Hat: ON]
Satan: Perhaps you’ve forgotten while you were away, but the moderators will lock threads when they feel it is necessary. If you would like to suggest something like that to us, please use e-mail.
White Male: Whatever Satan said, it does not give you the right respond like that. If you feel you absolutely must tell somebody to go to hell, do it in the Pit. Better yet, don’t do it at all.
David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator
[Moderator Hat: OFF]
WMinH,
Bitchslapping is fine. Whoopdiedoo. But I also posed three serious questions to you which you didn’t even attempt to answer. I shall now ignore your presence on this board, and I do hope you don’t dawdle too long before seeing yourself to the door.
the reality is that white men continue to enjoy huge privilege. you having sex with women of color does not change the reality of oppression. the way some of you objectify them (drachillix and Adventurious82) leads me to believe that this is just another facet of that privilege.
I will attempt to bring a little specificity to this generalized debate. I date Drachillix, and yes, the euphamisims apply. I do not feel objectified. I do not feel oppressed. I do not feel it is his privilege to date me because he is white. I chose him. All by myself,I chose him. I chose him from several very nice men of different ages, racial backgrounds and socio-economic status. I will ask him if he believes it his manifest destiny to have me as his woman solely because I am Hispanic. I will ask calmly, and not scream at him in Spanish. I am willing to bet he will not attempt to oppress me and might even consider the opportunity I willingly give him to enjoy my company as a privilege in itself.
Just want to clarify – WHITEY, if you imagine for one second I am taking your side over HAPA’s, you are seriously deluded. He at least admits to posting out of anger; you appear to post from ignorance. And my disagreement with him may well have been a misunderstanding; my disagreement with you is not. I understood you perfectly, and I understood your condescending attitude. Him I respect; you I do not. Just so we’re crystal on that.
Ahhhhhh…it is soooo nice to hear a woman’s point of view for a change. I was beginning to think women were as rare on here as bigots, let alone women of COLOR. So thank you Cyn for sharing…
Thank you for reminding everyone here that women of color, or any other women for that matter, are not helpless beings who are vulnerable to those males that some in here seem to view as ‘superior’. Personally I do not feel superior to anyone else based on class, race or gender. And why do some folks continue to think that women of color are being ‘taken advantage of’ or ‘dominated’ by white males? This is such lunacy. Perhaps BECAUSE of the very adversity they have borne in their American history, women of color are in many ways STRONGER than women I have met of any other race, white, asian or ‘other’. Cyn also points out, indirectly, that really it is the WOMEN who choose their man, NOT the other way around. They sometimes let us THINK we do the choosing because ‘some’ of us have fragile egos.
Jodi, I really don’t give a rat’s @ss if you like my posting or not. I’ve been on the board for a very brief time, but get used to it cuz I’m not leaving, get it? I was merely complimenting your earlier reply to hapa and certainly wouldn’t want you to think I was your ‘pal’ or anything.
Also, David, you are absolutely correct. I should not advise anyone to go to hell. I’m sorry about that. I guess I succumbed to that temptation because the ‘gentleman’s’ name happens to be SATAN. I’m sure SATAN would view the request to ‘go to hell’ in a far different context than you or I would. Oops, I forgot… just like Santa Claus, there really IS no Satan.
By the way, is anyone doing anything special to celebrate black history month?
Is it me, or is this jus tthe wrong question to ask in this thread?
::running for the hills::
“Women of color” is inclusive of which shades of skin tone? I am Hispanic, as are my sisters, and we are three differing shades of color. I can only speak for myself as to the adversity I have borne, and while it has made me stronger, it has only made me stronger than I was, not stronger than any other woman of any other coloration I know of.
Yes, Cyn, when I refer to women of ‘color’ I am including all shades non-white. When I refer to past suffering, however, I am referring to black women and bi-racial women (in this instance, black and whatever, INCLUDING hispanic).
And for the rest of yall…
Most interracial couples have tended to be black male/white female. I have no idea what the percentages are, I’ll let hapa dazzle you all with his statistics, but it seems like the percentages of black male/white female couples has been pretty much at a consistent level over the last 10 years or so, while the number of white male/black female couples has been increasing steadily. Why do you suppose this is? I feel it is because we are SLOWLY moving to a colorblind society, one that is not SO obsessed with skin color as we have pretty much always been. We have so many more races and cultures mixing together today that rarely mixed in the past. We still have an awefully long way to go, however. But judging by the youth of today, with so many mixtures of race and culture that it is truly amazing…the issues of race that confronted and continue to confront those of us who are now adults will not be much of an issue for those coming up behind us. This bodes well for us as a society, who continue to face race relations issues as one of America’s dominant challenges today.
Is interracial dating for everyone? Certainly not. I believe many people have been interested in dating someone out of their race but have not done so due to fear of being judged harshly by others. I am speaking primarily to these folks, and anyone else touched by the issue. The topic served as a conversation starter on this subject…nothing more nothing less. That was my intent, anyway. All the other speculations to this point have been interesting and amusing to me, and I appreciate all the responses thus far. For the thread ‘police’ out there, I am learning (this is still my first week on the board) and I will try to stick to the point whenever possible. Thanks!
Break out the statistics books we missed one
have we actually polled this or is this an assumption that fits your theory (cite please)
and the reverse is not true?
yup and it was bad, we acknowleged it was bad, and killed a couple hundred thousand of our own citizens in a war that was partly because of it. What else do you want a personal apology and a check every month.
Like this is a new or original problem? I guess we need the millitary to recruit some white prostitutes to sprinkle around the bases?
So you’re calling my girlfriend a cross cultural fucking tour guide? Sounds like whoever called you racits might be right
Opressed? Oh yeah, damn caught me with my pointy white hood on again. I consider myself “priveledged” when any woman, regardless of color, wish to share their time with me.
many of their parents would have preferred they were dating within their own ethnicity.
You apparently dont know how many times I have been told “I dont date white guys”
and all women can be beautiful and interesting, I put no more significance on the fact that thay happen to be white, black, mexcican, indian, martian, etc. Everyone likes different things. If I like what I see, I look further.
by the way, instead of knee-jerking into a ridiculous accusation of racism (which some of us take more seriously than you do, obviously) when somebody disagrees with you, why don’t you read this with an open mind? you remember, that open mind you so happily trumpeted in the OP… **
[/QUOTE]
Racism? Lets see I learned quite a while ago that everyone is far more alike than they like to think, or admit. You are the one trying to pidgeonhole everything here.
Will I like interracial dating because races are physically different or mentally different?
Obviously races look different. I myself find green apples to be better than red ones. I also find dark haired women to be more attractive than blonde ones. I like girls who are either shorter or taller than I.
Just to fuel the fire, I like russian/eastern european women most, then most cartoon women, then its a tie between the rest of them. Physically.
Mentally, however, I can’t say, mainly because I don’t know these people, just see 'em, but I’ll take everyone’s word that there are little mental differences. I also don’t really care to know most people, regardless of age/race/sex, because I’m just not a socialite.
I think that there is, in some people, a desire to date outside the “group” much like there is a desire for some people to listen to music that’s offensive just to be different, and get tattoos, and so on and so on. These do not make the people who do these things for more “noble” reasons (like 'cause they want to) less worthy of existence, but it does cloud the issue. I found myself strangely attracted to a Brit once, and I wondered if it was because she was merely from another country or because she was in and of herself attractive. Or was she attractive, but MORE so because she was from another country. I found myself attracted to a black girl from a movie big time, and then I wondered if it was mainly due to her color. This is the paranoia the PC crowd has pumped in my head: inverted racism. There’s two asians who work here and I am attracted to both. There’s a Lithuanian (oh MAN) who drives me nuts. There’s a semi-red head who also is damn good-looking.
Most of the time I feel that women are just damn attractive period, but other times I muse that I feel that way because I was somehow “told” to, or that I am rebelling against what I was “told,” and so on. What if I’m being racist? What if I’m actually a homophobe? What if I’m actually gay? Bi? I sometimes wish I could be female for a day just to see what it was like…does that make me a wanna-be-but-in-denial transexual?
Its hard to be honest with one’s self, ain’t it? 
Long live diversity…but don’t point it out?.. hahaha
i really want to let this thing die, i swear. i just have this compulsion (cannot…control…myself…must…resist). i just cannot let it seem like i’m ducking a question. if i insist on telling you folks things that seem to upset you, the least i can do is be completely honest.
“hapa” is short for “hapa haole” which means (approximately) “half white” in Hawaiian. so my name itself provides clues. the term hapa is being used more and more here on the West Coast.
my father is Irish/English/Scottish, and he identifies primarily as Irish (my grandmother was born and raised in County Roscommon, Ireland). i am proud of my heritage (actually planning a solo backpacking trip to Ireland in the near future) and if i didn’t mention it, it wasn’t on purpose–just didn’t seem relevant.
i identify primarily as a mixed Asian person, mostly because i’m much closer to my mother and because i grew up in very diverse environments in Los Angeles. i tried the raceless “we’re all human” thing so popular with white folks and it left me really hollow and unfulfilled.
my parents’ marriage is no fairy tale but it has managed to last 37 years at last count. i think that my mother’s adherence to white standards of beauty affected her self-esteem and she kind of settled for my dad and his emotional problems. he also expected her to be the image of the subservient Asian woman, which she mostly accepted.
what i’m trying to say is that on a surface level, they loved and respected each other and race never was an issue. they would probably have no bone to pick with the OP. but politics definitely affected the relationship. that love and respect is vital, but it (sadly) isn’t the total picture and i think it can be unhealthy to leave these issues unexamined.
actually, my girlfriend of 7 years is multiracial but Black phenotypically and i’ve endured my share of stares and comments. i did my best to learn about the reasons for this anger and i don’t take it personal. instead of just dismissing people’s feelings, perhaps you could try harder to understand them…
these attacks are an enlightening thing for me. white folks created racism and we people of color did our best to overcome it for hundreds of years. NOW many white folks act like racism has completely disappeared (“we’re all the same” crap and the like) and people of color are “angry” or “extremist” if we mention the fact that racism still exists and it still affects our communities. hate to remind you, but life isn’t all good for brown people around the world. racism has perhaps lessened in personal intensity while it has grown inreasingly veiled and systemic.
this is actually the biggest (backhanded, of course) compliment i’ve received here. thank you.
or are you just admitting that these issues are over your head? read some of his books and get back to me…oh, and pass the books to drachillix when you’re done with them.:rolleyes:
That will be news to the Korean busineess owners who had their businesses burned during the LA riots. Every group has been guilty of racial discrimination. the Japanese discriminate the Ainu and the Eta who are ethnically Japanese; Pharaonic Egypt treated blacks as (as well as all non-Egyptians) as inferiors, and they’re none too friendly to ‘em today; the Bantu tribes discriminate against Pygmies (sorry, don’t know the proper nomenclature) today. In america, whites hold the power to make minorities’ lives difficult, but the rest of the world is no racial paradise.
In additon, drop the “we people of color” crap. You already admitted that your dad is a blue-eyed devil, so you’re half slavemaster/ofay/evil white person yourself.
Aw, c’mon, HAPA, this is unprovable B.S. and you know it. Racism exists in segments of the Black community as well, where “light” is prized while “dark” is not. (This is apparently particularly true in the Carribean.) In Japan, the Ainu (more native than the rest of the Japanese) are discriminated against by other Japanese – and the Japanese, as a society, are by reputation notorious racists in any event. The Bible is filled with middle-eastern exhortations of racial and religious purity – that a Jew should not marry a gentile and that a Hebrew should not even associate with a Samaritan, and the ancient Egyptians enslaved their darker neighbors from Southern Africa.
Racism and tribalism exist in virtually every culture, and have existed throughout history. The modern United States does pretty well, as a mixed-race society, in at least acknowledging the problem of racism and attempting to combat it. To say that Europeans or caucasians “created racism” is absolutely indefensible hyperbole, and you know it.
but you did anyway, and instead told us your life story… how touching, I think I need a tissue.
We did? Cite please? You seem to toss a lot of facts about but refuse to support them?
Or is this another of your assumptions that fit your argument?
I probably read more than you do, maybe you should stick to posting in MPSIMS it seems to fit your posting style better.
I just want to jump in here and say one quick thing.
I’m engaged to a woman who happens to be Filipino. We are soon to be married, and never even ONCE did we ever consider race an issue.
We are looking forward to having kids, and before this thread, I had never even thought about our relationship or children being any different than any other relationship or kid out there.
I still don’t.
Drop the whole race identity thing.
If I ever hear my kid spewing the kind of crap coming out HapaXL’s mouth, I’m going to slap him so silly that he looks red.
::Depeche Mode voice::
People are people, so why should it be, that you and me should get along so awfully
it’s called shorthand, people. do i really need to explain every time in minute detail that i’m talking about this society?
of course i know (thanks for the benefit of the doubt this time, Jodi) that people all over the world have discriminated against each other.
i’m talking about a modern, Western-European, based-on-colonialism-and-slavery, pseudo-scientific ranking of the races. you know–that thing that has dominated American history? i can most certainly defend the fact that white folks created that system. besides, there are huge differences between “racism” and “tribalism” and how can you equate the two? this is probably a whole other “debate.”
i can’t write legal documents with each term explicitly defined. i am trying to be interesting and readible. i think when you say “racism” most Americans agree on what you’re talking about. or we can just generalize ourselves into oblivion and talk about nothing in particular (does anybody have anything to add?)
Jodi, your mention of color issues in the Black community is, once again, a fine example of internalized racism. i urge you to learn about this because it’s vital to understanding people of color and the issues we deal with. sorry, but i don’t have any suggestions for reading handy.
thanks goboy for telling me what my identity should be. maybe you should have told Frederick Douglass or Bob Marley the same thing. or maybe Malcolm X should have been half as quiet because he was a quarter white. are you equating race with culture?–that’s an interesting proposition. me thinks you’re really just trying to get rid of the sour taste in your mouth from our last encounter here in Great Debates…
HAPA –
Yes, because when you don’t it’s obviously not clear that you’re are talking specifically about our society and not about racism in general. Not to mince words, but when you persist in generalizing wildly, you then have no basis to complain that we do not interpret your comments with specificity. Why should we bother to specify? You don’t.
You didn’t say this. You said “white folks created racism.” Period.
Actually, I don’t see how you can. You admit to the existence of black-on-black racism (which you excuse as being “internalized”) and you surely are aware of the racism of various immigrant groups against one-another – Koreans versus Philipinos versus Blacks versus immigrant whites (primarily from Russia and Ukraine). It is ridiculous to say that “white folks created this system,” as if Blacks or Asians or Native Americans do not suffer from the same tendencies to generalize on the basis of race.
Yes, it probably is, but they are obviously comparable. Racism is tribalism on a large scale – discriminating not on the basis of a language or tradition held in common but a color.
Well, you are sacrificing clarity in the name of interest and readability. Again, and with respect, I think you have little right to post, in effect, “don’t respond to what I said respond to what I meant.” Only you know what you mean; the rest of us must rely on what you say.
I think you’re right. When you talk about general “racism,” most Americans agree that you are talking about a theory that is not limited in scope or application to the United States or to white people. And if you say “racism in the U.S.” or “white racism,” I think most Americans would agree on what you were talking about there, too – and would agree that it’s different than general “racism.”
Thanks, but I think I’m up to speed on the idea of internalized racism, which is – no matter how you slice it – racism by blacks against blacks (or by Asians against Asians, or whatever). It is, therefore, a type of racism. You appear to be willing to excuse this particular type of racism because it is imposed on the culture from the outside (by Whitey). Remarkably, you do not appear to realize (again) how patronizing this is – as if people of color are powerless to think for themselves and reject racims of any type. As if instead they must inevitably be racist to one another because they have “internalized” that racism is a good thing. It isn’t, and the costs of internalized racism are as high as the costs of external racism – perhaps higher, because it is prejudice taught to people of color by people of color, to the detriment of people of color. And if this occurs – and you admit that it does – entirely within the non-white community, how long do you get to blame whites for the fact that people of color perpetuate this problem?
I think what annoys me the most about the “racism” claims is that they Assume because SOME people are racist, they all are.
Oh yes, I know the racist ones. The ones at work that whisper to each other the same lines that have been uttered since the civil war. (a bit of an exaggeration im sure)
Does that mean I am? Most certainly not. Do I love all Blacks, Aisians, Japanese ect? No, but do I love all whites? Hell no. I make judgements based on what type of attitudes they have, And I can say that I most certainly hate more whites than all of the people of any color combined. On that note, what pisses me off is the claim that they are oppressed because they are “different”, “of color” ect.
Well let me tell you this, Im at least 75% white (some Canadian Indian in me but nothing noticable, at least not to my knowledge) and the I see lots of oppression in my day to day life.
I look young for my age, so when I buy cigarettes sometimes im accused of having a fake Id (im 24). thats oppression, and and slander outright. (get a cop, let him run my Id, and prove to you this isnt fake asshole)
Im young so I dont know ANYTHING, thats oppression.
Im not the most attractive person, so I get stared at, turned down for dates, made fun of. That is most certainly oppression.
Is it easy to deal with it? No, sometimes it intills rage, sometimes a deep sadness. But I survive.
Not all oppression is because the person is “of color” even if that person is not white.
Ive been told by many people that i cant have black friends because im white, sometimes by blacks. That instills the rage.
Im not saying rasicm doesnt happen, because it certainly does, on both ends. But to say that ALL whites are rasicst or that we feel superior because of our color is being close minded and stupid.
Its like saying all quiet introverts are serial killers/pediphiles. Or all Blacks are Gangsters/Rappers. Its stupid generalization and makes the accuser look stupid.
First logical thing I have heard.
Oops thought we had a future politician until this line
Plenty, do you?
So you thought maybe we in our ignorance would guess at appropriate material?
Encounter? Oh?