Introduce Us To D&D

The Game Room
1

Seeing the 4th Edition thread here has reminded me that i’ve been meaning to post this for for a while, and now that my wedding is out of the way it seems like a good time to do it.

Anyway, recent happy accidents of geography have meant that myself and several good friends have found ourselves once again living in close geographical proximity. This has meant that, for the first time in years, we are actually able to get together on a regular basis and shoot the breeze without anyone having to worry about staying late and then having to catch a train or pay off some cab driver’s mortgage in order to get home.

Now the last time we were in this situation, we generally spent it boozing, watching football and attempting to engage in acts of casual sex with the opposite sex. Should none of those options prove available, our time was spent playing Halo or watching the Lord of the Rings Extended Editions.

This time round, however, the make up of our group isn’t particularly condusive to a resumption of this state of affairs. For one thing, my good lady wife seems incredibly intransient on the whole casual sex thing - as do the partners of my friends. For another, they seem to have deviously and almost unnoticedly managed to expand the definition of “the group” so that it now includes themselves! That pretty much rules out the football and limits the boozing as well.

As someone once pointed out though, every cloud has a silver lining - and in this case its this:

Everyone likes playing games.

As a result, we’ve found ourselve playing various board games of varying complexity more and more - often in the pub (we have a wonderful pub down the road that not only allows people to play games there but actively encourages it - they even have a “house” Settlers of Cataan set). It’s even got to the point where a regular games night/afternoon has been agreed wholeheartedly by everyone involved.

So, finally, you get to the meat of this thread - which is that we increasingly suspect that the occasional bit of D&D may well be an option. It’s certainly something everyone is prepared to try - particularly now that even the lasses have developed a taste for games like Shadow over Camelot and whatnot.

There is one problem though - No trained GM. None of us has ever played “true” D&D before. I suspect, therefore, that at least initially I would have to GM, given that i have the broadest gaming background.

So my questions for the D&D peoples here are as follows:

- Is this even remotely feasable? (Obviously)

Then:

- Should we go with 4th Edition or is an earlier release better to use?
- Can we keep sessions relatively short and simple enough (at least to begin with) to allow us to get used to it?
- What materials do we actually need to play? (i.e. am i gonna have to break the bank to get started on this?)

To give some background on the group:

Me
Video Gamer (and Games-Reviewer) of all types - console and PC, action, strategy, MMORPG and RPG (including both Baldur’s Gates and Neverwinter Nights). Also played a lot of Magic: The Gathering in my youth and Battlecards before that, plus a bit of Warhammer 40k and used to enjoy reading D&D Campaign books in the library when i was about 10 (although i had no idea that’s what they were at the time).

First Mate
Video Gamer of most types - console and PC, action, strategy, MMORPG (a lvl 60 Warcrafter) and RPG (including again both Baldur’s Gates and Neverwinter Nights). I suspect that if we got going he’d be up for/capable of GMing as well after a while.

Second Mate
Console Gamer and enjoys the odd RPG, although generally more of an action sort. Loves board games though and enjoys strategy type stuff as long as he’s in good company.

My Missus
Relatively recent convert to video games (mainly due to osmosis from me - the poor lass) but long time boardgamer - particularly of the Settlers of Cataan variety. Has developed a taste for RPGs on the DS and (impressively) got as far as the last boss recently on Final Fintasy 3. Enjoyed the team play of Shadow and happy to explore that more.

First Mate’s Missus
Again, recent video gamer by osmosis - to the point where she got a 360 for her birthday last week. Mainly Racing Games and Music Games but has become partial to board games like Shadow and, again, the co-operative element of them.

Second Mate’s Missus
Doesn’t play video games, but is a big board gamer and god save the man who takes her on at dominoes. Again, has enjoyed the likes of Settlers and Shadow and is keen to explore more.

So what are your thoughts people? Doable? And if so, how do we best go about it?

2

It’s certainly possible to start a roleplaying campaign with no experience, because I did it 29 years ago! :eek: And three of that group are still playing with me. :cool:

I’ve not seen 4th edition, but there is a thread discussing it in this Forum.
I’ve only used 1st Edition myself (although our group wrote an accompanying manual), but the rulebooks are a bit hard to get hold of.
Why not first see what rulebooks are available? You’ll need a Players Handbook for everyone, and a Dungeon Masters Guide + Monster Manual for the DM (Dungeon Master)

Since you’ve played games like ‘Baldur’s Gate’, you’ll probably find a corresponding set of rules fairly easy to pick up. Unfortunately I’m not sure which version they are! :mad:
However the ‘Temple of Elemental Evil’ is an interesting turn-based computer game which definitely has a corresponding rulebook (because I have bought it!) It is titled ‘Dungeons and Dragons Players handbook’ by Cook, Tweet and Williams.
If everyone played that game for a bit, at least you’d all be on the same page.

Once you decided on a system, you can write an adventure that naturally breaks into small episodes, each one lasting one session.
These can vary from information gathering and puzzle-solving through to combat.

Apart from the Manuals mentioned above, you will need dice and a figurine for each character. It’s nice to build up a set of Monster figurines too (for the atmosphere). Perhaps a hexagonal cloth to protect the table and allow positioning.

If this makes sense to you, I could suggest some initial scenarios as well…

3

What edition to play?

I know it’s odd, and most people seem to start with a version fo DnD, but I wouldn’t recommend it. DnD isn’t bad, per se, but it’s awful clunky and not terribly special in any way anymore. It’s famous because it was first. Still, it’s not the best system or even best fantasy system.

I would recommend The Lord of the Rings Role Playing Game. The rules are consistent, concise, and everyone has an idea of what’s expected in the game. It’s close enough to DnD that you probably have a grasp of what to do (from your elec gaming experience there) but far enough to have strong rules.

DnD version have their points, but odd as it sounds, I wouldn’t want to try 3rd or even 4th without having some idea of what to do first. LotRRPG has enough flexibility to accomodate your group but a clear idea of what they should be doing and how they should be doing it, without being a straightjacket.

4

Long time D&D player speaking.

If you want to try D&D, I would suggest either playing 3rd or 4th editions. My reasons.

  1. These games are more recently published; 3rd Edition was released in 2000 and a revision in 2003. 4th edition is scheduled for release on Friday of this week. This means that the availability of good-condition print rulebooks is high. By comparison, you will have to resort to second-hand dealers to get the material.

Additionally 3rd edition was published under an Open Gaming Licence. There are several online sites that have the basic rules freely available. Consequently, availability of rulesets heavily favours the more recent products.

  1. Ease of understandability. 1st Ed inherited some strange conventions from wargaming, and sometimes you are not sure whether rolling high is good or rolling low is good. 3rd Edition established uniform conventions (“the higher you roll, the better”). As far as I know 4e retains that.

As for choice between them, many people in the hobby don’t like what they’ve heard about 4e, and early reactions are that it’s too restricted and has a very “video game-y” feel. That might be an advantage for you, though, given that many of you have a background in video and MMORPGs. I personally don’t think I’ll be buying 4e, but that’s more to do with my personal circumstances.

If you do go for 3rd edition, start off by using only the three “core rulebooks” - the Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide and Monster Manual. Between the six of you you’ll need only one of each of the latter two. Six PHBs may be a bit much if you’re just sampling. I’d recommend two, to start. If you enjoy it, you’ll be able to ad more later. Three would be better (one per couple) if your budget can stretch that far.

If you go for 4th, that’s all that is available at the moment.

You will need dice. Dice are a must. Find a hobbyshop and buy a few handsful. No need to get pretty stuff, just the bare plastic ones. You can always buy pretty ones later :wink:

You will need dice with four, six, eight, ten, twelve and twenty sides. Two of each except d6 and d20 (the six- and twenty-sided ones).

The other things that are really helpful are scrap paper and scratch pads (for everyone) pencils and erasers (there will be a lot of changing figures, you need pencils). Finally, some paper or stuff to draw on and some markers for characters and monsters.

I could give you suggestions on where in London to get these (if you don’t already know) but that would be driving a horse and cart through the Dope’s rules about advertising. If you want to chat further, PM me or something.

I forgot this paragraph.

Start with low-powered characters!

The higher the power level of the characters the more options they have. The more options they have, the more time you will spend looking through the rulebooks and arguing about what they mean. That means you spend less time developing your character (or just hitting things), and that (plus levelling up) are the fun parts of D&D.

You go out, kill things, take their stuff, sell it and buy better gear for yourself with which you can go out, kill harder things and take their stuff, sell that…

5

I started playing DnD in college after living in an area where no one else did! Its a great way to hang out and enjoy time with friends! Since then I have run a variety of groups with a variety of people of skills levels that varies, variously.

My Advise for an ENTIRE First Time Group of people who have played video Games:

  1. Stick with the new rule sets. 3.5 or 4th ed… They are less complex in strange rules than their forebearers. If the actual DND rules are too confusing we can recommend a billion other “Rule Sets”. BUT they are all just sets of rules (More on this later).

  2. Start with a 1st Level “Pre-Published Adventure”. Writing your own well detailed adventure can be a challenge. This gives a first time person a chance to play more and think less. Make your own colorful world after you know you want to play!

  3. Rotate DMs the first few times. Being a Dungeon Master means you are there to guide the story and help everyone come together and have fun. And occasionally obliterate a Players Character through chance and tactics. Give everyone a chance to see if they enjoy “being in charge” more than playing. Both are equally fun so give everyone a chance. You might be surprised at who DMs well.

  4. Rotate Characters: You come from video games, try out everyone’s characters. This is great for the first few times you play when you have people rotating around to DM then play. People will eventually find mechanics and characters they enjoy and make some stories.

  5. Expect a lot of mistakes. Its a game, but everyone is going to get the rules wrong. Laugh about it.

  6. DON’T BE AFRAID TO CHANGE THE RULES!!! Don’t do this out of the gate, but eventually your group might find it doesn’t like some rules. Well, go ahead and change them. They aren’t laws and the DM is in charge.

  7. You are not playing a video game. Characters die for good, things change and everyone has an effect that is not reset. Each player is in charge of their character and the movement of the story and play. Let the DM both guide this and be willing to mess around. HAVE FUN!

Some people might recommend board mats and such, but really at first just try and get used to the cadence of your game before you start looking into minis and all the other debris. This will make everyone think a little more about their characters and less about maximizing output of damage. Eventually everyone will get there, which can be a pain.

Really, just get some beers (or a J) in people and have some fun. You can “Pause” the game at any one point. Pause frequently joke around and have fun. You will see when people get back into the game.

Really I love playing DnD. It seems like a huge lump of rules at first but, really they are just guidelines. =)

6

Let me give you the odd ball option. There are several board games which give you the same things that you may be looking for in D&D in a more structured format. The obvious one is Fantasy Flight’s Descent which has one player set up a dungeon and monsters and the other players controlling heroic characters who fight through it. Going with this method you’re getting most of the “game” aspects of D&D.

If it’s role-playing you’re interested in most modern RPG’s have much easier systems to learn and run than D&D. Almost all of them put their vital rules in one book as well rather than spreading it out among three. All but the most simulationist of RPG’s typically have rules that can be boiled down to about ten pages as well. But with RPG’s you’re best off selecting a theme that interests you and your friends and selecting the game based on that.

7

Also, check Half-Price Books for 3.0/3.5 books. People have started dumping all their books in expectation of 4th, and you can get the three core books cheaply there.

8

I’m going to disagree on the notion that everyone needs their own Player’s Handbook. During play, I’ve always found two to be plenty and one sufficient. Really, it’s not worth the cost to buy a bunch of them. The real advantage for everyone having one is that they can make characters in between sessions, but they can do that with free reources (see below). I’d also recommend 3.5 edition in large part due to the open game license. In fact, if you don’t mind having laptops handy while you play (admittedly, it works against the feel of the game, but it sure is cheaper, especially if you don’t know for sure you want to continue) The site www.d20srd.org is a fantastically well organized site that contains all of the “non-iconic” rules for free. Basically, you won’t find beholders and a lot of the fluff, but all the rules are in there.

As for the 3.5 vs 4 argument, as I understand it: if you want a game that focuses much more on boardgame/wargame/MMORPG style combat, go with 4th edition. The combat rules are significantly simpler and more balanced. if you want a game with a lot more out of combat options in the rules, go with 3.5E.

9

You can check out Fate RPG. It’s quite different than DnD, but it’s good RPG and it’s free (open game license). You can download rulebook (to use with any setting) or Spirit of the Century (Fate based complete RPG game) and try it out without additional costs.

Structure of Fate actually demands players activity in creating story, so it might be easier for first-time DM. But there is no hard rule - some people love it, some people hate it. You just have to try it and decide for yourself.

10

A good rule of thumb for DMing, as is written on another message board:

11

Good points all. Thanks for your efforts.

So far, based on comments here, i’m leaning towards picking up 4th Edition when it drops on Friday. I suspect that, stylewise, it may lend itself more to play styles we’re familiar with.

Before i do that, however, i’ll take a look at Fate and LOTR and see if maybe going with a different RPG is an option.

Any other suggestions for alternatives that might be worth glancing at first?

12

Hmm. Call of Cthulhu is a really fun system in theory, and it’s a reasonably unique concept, but because of the esoteric theme and the presence of numerous pretty hideous flaws in the default ruleset it would probably make a disappointing system to begin with.

13

I’ve used CoC with new RPG’ers before because I can explain the rules in two paragraphs and the holes in the rules don’t really matter; if someone’s getting out of hand they can have a face to face chat with Yog Sothoth and that’s the end of that.

However it is not one I’d suggest for completely new gamers since a well run Cthulhu game is going to be pretty arbitrary. I’ve given the “Your character is going to die. Horribly. Quickly.” speech before the game but it can be rough on new players when there isn’t much margin of error. It’s a horror game, after all, and a GM who’s trying to support that has to be cruel and finding the balance can be rough on a newbie GM as well.

It’s much the same reason that Paranoia isn’t a good option for a full group of people completely new to role-playing no matter how hysterical it can be to have one new person in a crowd of people who have played.

14

Well, fate decided for me.

I looked on Amazon, and they had the 4th Ed. DM/Monster/Player Guide set for £39.

As i was looking at it, my boss shouted out from across the room that amazon had sent him £20 of vouchers which he wasn’t going to use, and that he’d give them to anyone who would spend them on something that made him laugh.

Throw in the fact that i get free next day shipping (thanks to Amazon Prime) and…

…well, think you can guess the rest. :smiley:

15

Good choice going with 4th ed. IMHO. Enjoy your gaming, and as a request please post here with your thoughts of it after you do so!

16

Congrats, and I hope you enjoy! Just keep in mind that 3.5 is a much different beast from 4.0, so if you don’t enjoy 4th ed it still might be worth checking out some of the other systems.

While we’re on the topic, I want to take an informal poll: it’ll be a little bit before I have time to run it, but if I were to run a play-by-post game of Fate on the board, would anyone be interested?

17

You don’t actually need any D&D books beyond just the Player’s Handbook. I started DMing with just a 2nd ed. PHB. Of course, that meant making up monster stats, magic items, encounter tables and other esoterica on the fly, but it worked out fine for me.

I’ve been playing a system called Spirit of the Century lately, it’s a lot of fun. It’s 1920s pulp fiction, with Science! So you could easily have a 1920s style death ray if you wanted. My character drives a custom Ford Model R; the R stands for Rocket. It’s based on the free Fudge system, which is very simple and highly adaptable. Basically, you have some skills with a number associated with them, you roll 4 regular dice* (you can use the special Fudge dice but it’s not required), and then add the roll result to the skill and that’s it. Spirit adds a lot of detail onto this, but it’s all pretty straightforward.

*A 1 or 2 counts as -1, 3 or 4 counts as 0, and 5 or 6 counts as +1. The Fudge dice are marked with -, blank, and +. Either way, you get a result ranging from -4 to +4, which gives you a pretty decent bell curve. A lot of systems, notably any version of D&D and older editions of White Wolf stuff, don’t.

18

If its a role playing game like D&D, I’d love to tack on a second one to the Vikings one i’m in.

19

That would be my question. I would be interested if it was done more or less in the style of the D&D games we have running now. (i.e. we don’t all play together at a set time, but rather in a more free flowing environment).

My only experiance with these types of games so far is what I am doing here on the dope, but I am having fun in both games.

20

I wouldn’t mind participating in a Play by Post if Fate is similar to D&D. Unlike mafia, there is no schedule, so my schedule won’t interfere. (I’ll be active, don’t get me wrong, but mafia requires constant analysis. The nice thing about RPGs is you only have to analyze what’s happening with your character. You don’t need to worry what everyone else is doing.)

I’ve done PbP before, but each time it died out because there were only a few of us active.