investment in flying lessons

Was. She died six years ago. She moved to Redondo Beach in the '80s and worked at a couple of other FBOs. I think one was called ‘Tom’s’. She married a pilot who flew at Gibbs, a big Finn named Turkka. Dad was cool with it, and he even helped Turk get his license.

Yes, it was a 182, N3106S.

When I was an active pilot, sometimes people would wonder how I knew someone/something. I’d tell them, ‘We all know each other.’ :stuck_out_tongue:

I always wanted to be a crop duster. How easy is it to get one of those jobs?

Fifteen years ago I worked for an aerial photography company in Southern California. We did mostly mapping and documentation work as well as the rare scenic photography. Me, I did a bit of everything except fly and repair the planes or repair the photo equipment, but mostly I was a ground pounder. There were a few of our photogs over the years that earned free yoke time because the pilots would be willing to let them fly from the right hand seat. That is assuming there was a right hand seat, there were a couple of our planes where that had been removed.

With these advanced days of cheap, compact, and powerful computers as well as GPS, most photogrammetry jobs are being flown with only a pilot and no one else.

In answer to someone’s query above, yes, you do need a commercial pilot’s license to fly photo. However, most of the scenic photogs use a helicopter to capture their images. Basically, it’s a better platform for handheld photo work.

I’m curious about this too and agree with being sure you want to learn. There was nothing I wanted more than to fly when I was a teenager. Then I took a few lessons and was bored out of my mind. To me, it was never ‘soaring like an eagle’, it was more like driving a car with a better view, but also having to ask ‘pretty please’ to a voice miles away to do much more than sneeze.

I tried hang gliding, which I did love, but then I had a kid and decided it’s probably not the smartest hobby to be in. I’d like to get into light sport flying. The OP might want to look into it, a light sport certificate is cheaper than a regular pilot’s license.

>snort< I know a lady who was still working as a commercial pilot in her late 90’s (she has since retired for health reasons). No, you’re nowhere near too old. As long as you can pass any required physicals you’re good to go.

If you’re flying as a private pilot you need at least one eye correctable to 20/40.

If you’re flying commercial you need at least one eye correctable to 20/20.

Hell, I couldn’t even find the airplane without my glasses. And I’m colorblind. And wear bifocals now. As long as my eyesight is correctable to 20/20, though, I can fly.

Of course, other countries have different regulations - I quote the US requirements. But eyeglasses don’t automatically disqualify you. They will give you an eye exam, of course.

Those flying services that fly to Colombia and back pay a ton of money!

(Sorry, I couldn’t help it)

It can be cheaper, it’s not always.

True. But the retirement plan *really *sux.

Pro pilot …

As others have said, you’re never too old to learn, provided you’re still willing to apply yourself.

There are lots of regulatory obstacles to earning money flying as a side job. And the industry at that level is on it’s ass. Don’t count on that angle to defray your costs.

There are many oddball full-time flying gigs outisde the airlines. I don’t know enough about that part of the industry to comment intelligently. Except to say that the number of helo pilots the Army produces each year far exceeds the number the civilian helo industry can absorb. Right now many/most Army guys/gals are stuck inside & can’t leave the Army even if they want to. As hostilities wind down they’re gonna get dumped on the market en masse. So whatever you’re thinking about as a second career, helo pilot ain’t it.

As to airlines …

If you’re 45 and could hire on tomorrow, you could work as an airline pilot for 20 years before you hit the current mandatory retirement age of 65. That’s enough time to make some real money at it.

But as others have noted, the airline industry is a tough thing to get into. Trying to do the traditional *bootstrap yourself to regional airline pilot *will take 3-7 years and put you $50K in debt, plus all the money you won’t earn over those 3-7 years at whatever job you do now. Newbie RJ drivers qualify for food stamps. 5 years later they’re either stuck there making 75K / year as a Captain or they’ve jumped to the majors, also making 75K/year but as an First Officer (copilot).

If they get trapped at the regionals, game over income-wise. It’s like being a permanent minor-league ball player. Same bat, same ball, same uniform. Utterly different payback.

Somebody who does get on at the majors has a shot at the bigger bucks, but even that’s not the awesome deal it once was.

There will be a tremendous retirement boom in the next 5 to 15 years. Something significant will have to change or the commercial jet industry will simply run out of pilots. My bet is a combo of high fuel prices, reduced middle-class income in America and crowded skies will simply kill off the RJ fleets and we’ll be back to the industry kinda like it was in 1980s. The smaller airports will have 2 flights per day by each of 3 or 4 major airlines flying 737-sized aircraft and that’s it. The current situation of half-hourly departures all day long from the likes of Des Moines with 2 pilots carrying 30 passengers at a time will be a thing of the past.

My take is you’re just a little too old to really get the benefit of the revolution though. You’d be more likely to be left on the cutting room floor once the cutting starts
My advice: Go do it because it’s fun. Try it for a couple hundred bucks and if you’re bitten by the bug, it’ll be $3K or 5K or 8K well spent. You’ll always wonder if you don’t.

This was going to be my summer project, but I accepted an assignment in China instead, so that dream is going to be delayed by at least three years (unless the Red Army gives lessons). I’m still strongly considering doing the ground coursework remotely, and practicing all of the procedures in X-Plane.

The upside is, money should be less of an object when I get back.

As for pertinence to the OP, I’m not planning on recouping a dime, although if I were to become an instructor later on in life, that would be kind of a payback. On the other hand, I’d probably invest in a plane partnership, and it would end up with a constant, higher outflow of funds. :wink:

[Hijack] (always a bad thing to say in a pilot thread) …

When & where are you going? That sounds really interesting. Make sure to tell us all about it as you live through it. Particularly with your long Mexico experience it’ll be a fascinating study in compare and contrast.
[/Hijack]

The new Sporty’s catalogue arrived. 9/11 knocked me out of the skies, and then a got a mortgage and got laid off at the same time. I’ve been grounded too long. I’m thinking of switching back to fixed-wing, which costs half as much to rent as a heli. (Note to Fuyaba: If fixed-wing wasn’t what you expected, try helicopters. Loads more fun!)

LOL.

Nanjing né Nanking. We leave Friday at 12:15 pm. I’ll be 12 hours out of sync with most of the Dope-iverse, but I’ll be around.

I saw Bob Hoover (whom Chuck Yeager called “the best damn pilot I’ve ever seen”) flying at an air show, when he was in his 90s. You could tell the people who knew something about the mechanics of flight from those who didn’t, just by looking at their lower jaws. The ones who did? Jaws on the ground. The ones who didn’t? Jaws say “Boring”. Hoover made the nearly impossible look boring. While he was in his 90s. I’d say that means you have roughly 50 years left to hone your skills. Good luck, and I hope to see you flying at an air show near me.

Not only doesn’t require a pilot license, doesn’t even require a plane. I’ve still got the model rocket I built and flew 30something years ago with a film camera. Digital cameras that would work in it today? Trivial. You want aerial photos, I can do that, at about 2-5 hundred feet AGL. Cheap. Not a viable business model if you want to pay for your flight cert.

Cheshire Human: Check out this old Cineroc footage. Here’s an AstroVision flight and an Estes Oracle one. Somewhere in a box I have a Camroc with a 110 camera, which has yet to be built.

I’ve heard of people using r/c airplanes for aerial photos, which would be a better option. IMO it’s better to have eyes in the air, though.

Someone after my own heart! But I couldn’t afford those cameras, then. I had to make my own. You want areal pix now? I did a few with that rocket. And some camera I came up with. I can probably do it again. But fuck-all if it wasn’t a cast-iron bitch, just to make it work.

Want pix now? I’ve got an RC aircraft that can take the camera up… Which camera would you like. As I said, now it’s trivial. But I could have done it 30 years ago. Would have been hard, but could have been done. Now? Let me get some lunch first. I need some food before I do that…

Thanks for all the feedback, folks. As my journey continues, I have a few more questions.

Some schools cost more than others. Why is that? I see some charge separately for plane and then hit me again for the instructor’s time, and some are combining the fees. However, the overall costs still vary somewhat. Am I getting more by paying more? Am I getting less if I pay less?

Should I focus on a particular type of aircraft, or does it really matter to me, the beginner?

Would a large airport (say international size) offer any benefits / detriments than a small, regional airport?

Again, your time and comments are appreciated.

It’s actually customary to pay separately for the airplane and the instructor. There’s a certain logic to that, as during solo flights you won’t have the instructor with you.

You need to comparison shop, plain and simple. Costs will vary, and it may be as simple as avgas being a $1.00 more a gallon in one location as opposed to another (most trainer planes burn 7-10 gallons an hour, so that alone could account for a $10 difference in per hour cost, as an example). Some places charge more for the same type of airplane. Some pay their instructors a little more.

Yes and no.

Probably the most important thing about your first trainer plane is that YOU are COMFORTABLE. Can you reach everything you need to reach in the cockpit? Is there sufficient legroom? Can you get in and out easily? How is the elbow room?

MOST people theses days start in either a Cessna, where the wing is over your head, or a Piper Cherokee type, where you sit above the wing. Some people get very particular about that - me, I happily fly both. IF you have a choice I suggest you sit in both, or even take an introductory flight in both, and see if you have a preference. Sometimes you just have what’s available at the flight school. Really, though, either will get you started just fine.

There are other types used for primary instruction, but they aren’t as common. Doesn’t matter that much - for primary training you want an instructor you can get along with, whose explanations make sense to you, and who will instill good habits in you from the first.

I do NOT recommend a large airport for primary learning. You’ll spend a LOT of your time burning expensive avgas on the taxiways waiting for clearance from the tower to move or take off. It is not an efficient use of your time and money. Also, the traffic and radiowork in such places can be intimidating. People flying at busy, towered airports usually solo later than those at less busy airports.

I recommend a smaller airport for initial learning.

The airplanes have a good bit to do with the rate, as well. Some operations have near-new ones, with glass panels and a lot of instruments and radios that you simply don’t need for basic instruction, and can even be distracting. Newer planes cost a lot more than perfectly-sound ones that were made a few decades earlier and can be even better for training. Don’t be put off by a plane that was built in the 60’s or 70’s instead of the 2000’s; that’s just middle-aged for a plane (they aren’t cars - aluminum doesn’t rust). You don’t need to pay extra for a new 172 that cost the FBO $230,000 when you might be better off at a place with a 1978 model that goes for $45,000. You’re also going to be paying for their insurance.

I agree with staying away from a large field, or even a smaller towered one. You’ll be paying by the Hobbs-meter hour, which runs every moment the engine does. You’ll even get better used to flying in traffic at an untowered field, especially a busy one.