Can any Russian speakers who know the IPA please give me the IPA transcription of the name Надежда and its diminutive, Надя? I’m particularly struggling with the pronunciation(s) of the first д.
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Google translate has a sound file button (right below the text box) so you can hear it pronounced.
Based on what I heard on wiktionary (which doesn’thave the actual IPA like it usually does), I’d say [naˌdʲɛʒda] for the first. The second probably also uses [dʲ]. I believe it sounds almost like [dj], but I also think it’s only one sound.
I’ll check how Wikipedia says to transliterate Russian, if not for you, for the wikitionary article.
ETA: Crap. You may need to disregard this, as I was looking at the common noun, not the name. There’s not even a sound file for the name, and it is transliterated with just a D (Nadezhda) I need to do more research.
This might be slightly more accurate (I removed the word “and” from the Russian pronunciation).
Okay, sorry about that. The proper answer, after looking at the Wikipedia page IPA for Russian, is almost what I said it was: [naˈdʲɛʒda]. While it never explicitly says this, it appears that the vowels <е> <ю> and <я> palatalize the consonant before them, just like they would add a [j] if by themselves.
That makes sense, since the common English form of Надя [ˈnadʲə] is Nadia [ˈnadjə]. I hope that is helpful. You didn’t ask for a Russian expert, or I’d have deferred. And it agrees with Google translate.
I am, of course, willing to be proven wrong by an actual Russian speaker. But I’m confident enough to add it to the Wiktionary page.
Correction: I put in /nɐˈdʲɛʒdɐ/, as the <а>s are unstressed. Use that.
Also, you may find this Wikipedia article more useful.
Ugh. Crap. I missed one thing in my haste to correct my first post in this thread. Don’t use [ʒ], use [ʐ]. They just sound so similar. [nɐˈdʲɛʒdɐ] and [ˈnadʲə] are correct.
And I would be fine if you wanted to wait for someone else to confirm, since I messed up so many times.
BigT’s concerns over noun vs name are unfounded. The name and the noun are the same, just like the equivalent name “Hope” is in every way the same as the noun in English.
No need for that; I’ve got a native Russian speaker right here with that name. And no matter how I try to pronounce her name, she tells me I’m doing it wrong. Since I know the IPA, I figured that if I saw it written that way I’d know what sounds I should be using.
Well, that’s what I originally thought, but Nadya’s quite adamant that the sound isn’t [dʲ]. So either I’m not saying [dʲ] correctly, or else the /dʲ/ phoneme has a more precise phonetic realization that’s not captured in the basic phonemic transcription. In support of this latter theory, the Wikipedia article on Russian phonology states that “soft /tʲ/ /dʲ/ /nʲ/ and /lʲ/ are alveolar and laminal [t̻ʲ[sup]sʲ[/sup]] [d̻ʲ[sup]zʲ[/sup]] [nʲ̻] [lʲ̻]”, so maybe the first д Надя and Надежда is actually [d̻ʲ[sup]zʲ[/sup]]?
maybe this is not up to the scholarly standards you guys prefer, but check out this dictionary page for “dune” http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dune . The “dyoon” pronounciation is pretty much what the Russian “dya” should sound like, except with the -ya as opposed to -yu sound. So if it’s just a matter of sounding better, you can start practicing saying “na-dune” and then transition to saying “na-dya”.
It’s not a matter of scholarly standards, but rather of precision. The phonemic transcriptions given by dictionaries are quite broad and do not capture subtle (but important) phonetic distinctions.
For example, the <l> in the words “lip” and “call” are actually distinct phones [l] and [ɫ], but most native speakers actually aren’t aware of this, and most dictionaries will use the same symbol for both sounds when writing the pronunciation. However, you can’t substitute one of these phones for the other without sounding strange. If you pronounce “lip” with an [ɫ], for example, people will probably understand you, but think you have a funny accent.
I suspect that we have a similar situation for the /dʲ/ in “Надя”, which isn’t the same as the /dʲ/ in “dune”. It’s the same basic phoneme, but unless you pronounce it with the correct phones for Russian, you will have a conspicuous accent.
Psychonaut, I think your reading of the Russian phonology page is correct. Based on the descriptions I know what you are (ought to be?) hearing: some Russian speakers do it, some don’t. For a set of them, palatalized T and Д have a tiny what-sounds-like-S-or-Z-to-us in the middle. Sort of like “nad(z)jezhda.”
psychonaut, I am a Russian speaker who is aware of how “dune” and “nadya” are pronounced. If I happen to think that they are pronounced exactly the same, that would suggest that if you were to pronounce them the same in my presence, I would not suspect you of having an accent on that point. The “taller” and “lip” by contrast are very obviously different.
This whole “accent” thingie is a subjective issue, you know. If a speaker in the forest has deviated from the IPA claims but no IPA expert was there to hear that, was he speaking with an accent?