Iraqi oil to flow into Israel.

Aldebaran:

Well, I’ll bite. I’ve been to the UK, France, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy, and Ireland. Awesome people over there, and I hope the animosity between us simmers down.

I’ve also been lucky enough to travel to Egypt, Morocco, and Turkey (Turkey is fascinating, BTW). The famous hospitality of Muslims was really nice (even though Cairo was, well, really dirty and really crowded). This probably doesn’t count, but I once spent two hours in the “Magic Kingdom” (aka Saudi Arabia) on a layover in Riyadh. I have also been to Israel as recently as 1999.

As far as languages go, I speak English, some Spanish, and a little French. My wife and I are about to take a Spanish class so we won’t embarrass ourselves in Barcelona when we go there in the fall.

Look, Aldebaran, I know you’re trying to paint us Americans as a bunch of ignorant, arrogant, war-happy idiots. Hell, you might be right. But may I gently suggest that if you want to bash us indiscriminately, be my guest, but ultimately, many of us will begin to tune you out and not listen to the valid criticisms of our country that you may offer.

And I second Neurotik’s call to give us your bio, Aldebaran. Color me intrigued. :stuck_out_tongue:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF *
**The Iraqi population isn’t paying. The oil money is. **Yeah, but by the lone surviving justification for this war - that this was all about the Iraqi people - it’s their oil. So they’re paying.

We did, did we?

Exactly where is our commitment to rebuilding Iraq spelled out? I hope it’s not in the same disappearing ink as our commitment to rebuilding Afghanistan.

What Iraq has to do with flying planes into skyscrapers, I haven’t a clue. Unless that somehow gave us an indefinite license to do whatever we want, for any reason, anywhere in the Third World.

It’s starting to look as if that’s how our government is reading it.

Yeah, but by the lone surviving justification for this war - that this was all about the Iraqi people - it’s their oil. So they’re paying.

We did, did we?

Exactly where is our commitment to rebuilding Iraq spelled out? I hope it’s not in the same disappearing ink as our commitment to rebuilding Afghanistan.

The reason - the obvious, elephant-in-the-room-sized reason - we shouldn’t pipe oil from Iraq to Israel is that there’s a certain amount of animosity between most Arab countries and Israel. If the Iraqi people decide to leave this history behind, that’s their choice, and it would be a good one. But it’s one we really have no business making for them.

And making that choice on their behalf - right or not in the abstract - will not win us any points in the ‘hearts and minds’ department. If Iraqi oil flows to Israel on our say-so, my prediction is that we will be folding up our tent and going home well before we’ve accomplished much nation-building in Iraq.

GoHeels,

I’m not “bashing” any one here but the US president and government who are nothing but a bunch of greedy criminals.
And I condemn very strongly those who appluud them because they are complices in the crimes of that government by supporting them.
And I’m also representing the wide spread irritation about the American arrogance. I’ve seen in the few hours I post here attacks coming towards me I see coming everywhere I post on American boards. And yes, sorry to say so: but only on American boards.
They have comments on my style, comments on my English, my wording, my spelling… They act as if they are so much better in such a natural way that it is almost comical.
And all this while they have absolutely no clue about me.

So if you don’t mind, I’ll see this developping for a while because it is quite amusing. And you’ll see that as soon as those people get some information about me, it will even become more amusing to watch.

Aldebaran.

It’s Neurotik. With a “k.” Again, at least copy correctly.

And I’m sure if I went over to your country and started insulting them and showing no tact whatsoever, even in their own language, they’d slap me on the back and buy me a drink. :rolleyes:

And lastly, we do have a clue about you. We’ve seen people like you on these boards so many times it’s ridiculous.

By the way, don’t call people names in this forum. It’s not allowed. Try going down to the BBQ Pit.

Neurotic (that is the French spelling)

Sorry, but I don’t call you names; I say you act like a peasant, which you did, and did above again. And then I don’t mean with the word “peasent” any denegration of people who have a farm and have farming as their profession.

Attacking people who show you the courtesy to address themselves to you in your language, which is in my case a language I never studied is what I call: behaving like a peasent.

That is not saying: you “are” a peasent. And when I say you “are” a peasent, then you have the right to say I call you names, yes.

Now, be so kind to describe me what you mean with “and lastly, we have a clue about you” and “We’ve seen people like you on these boards so many times it’s ridiculous”.

I don’t see anything visible ridiculous about my presence here and I didn’t discover a twinbrother so far.
But you are entitled to your opinion, which I would like to hear.

Aldebaran.

If you don’t like me to see you behave as such, then why do you do it ?

God, I have to explore this board better, because how come that last sentence appeared under my name instead in the middle of the post, where it belongs?

And can someone instruct me if there is a way to get at the last post on a topic without having to scroll down the whole lot?

Thank you.

Aldebaran.

That’s how the word “neurotic” is spelled in English, too. However, that is not my handle. My handle is Neurotik. With a “k.” Kindly address me as such.
**

That’s calling names. It’s considered bad taste if one is expecting respectful replies to go around insulting them.
**

How is that a courtesy? If you had addressed me in French I would have just stared blankly at the screen as I do not speak the language. You came to a largely English-language message board looking for a response. For your goal, it was necessary to speak English, not a courtesy.
**

You demand and demand, but yet, are never willing to be forthcoming with information about yourself. How very, very odd.

Aldebaran.

If you don’t like me to see you behave as such, then why do you do it ? **
[/QUOTE]

Slight hijack. Isn’t it amazing how much people reveal of themselves in these little discussions?

Ah… sorry, I thought you used the English spelling for Neurotic.

And no, telling someone he is acting like such or such is not calling names, it is giving information about how his behaviour is perceived.

And if I come to a largely English speaking forum or not, it is your duty, if you follow the upbringing you received at hime, to respect foreigners who are making the effort to address themselves in your language the courtesy of appreciation.
It is not necessary for me to write in English. I’m sure there are people around who can read French, Spanish, an other language.
And it is not an obligation for you to read my posts nor is it an obligation for you to reply.

And why don’t you answer my questions? You came up with your “suppositions” about me, or not?

Aldebaran.

read there “home”, instead of “hime” :). I’m not only tired and give dyslexia a change to take over. I also use keyboard that is a bit difficult gives no references to ther the English language.

Aldebaran

Fair enough. But how do I know English isn’t your first language? Maybe you’re just illiterate or something and don’t want to admit it.
**

**
No, it isn’t necessary for you to write in English. However, if you actually want most of the people here to answer you, then you should probably do it.

And no, there is no obligation for me to read your posts nor to reply to them, but I am finding it horribly amusing to do so.

I have indeed come up with suppositions about you. I don’t feel like sharing them at this time, however.

I have, however, opened a Pit thread about you. Please feel free to join in the conversation.

“Fair enough. But how do I know English isn’t your first language? Maybe you’re just illiterate or something and don’t want to admit it.”

LOL.
“And no, there is no obligation for me to read your posts nor to reply to them, but I am finding it horribly amusing to do so.”

Yes, I can easily imagine that.

From the start it was apparent that true liberation of Iraq was not the reason for invasion. The big oil lobby and the big “reconstruction” lobby make money only if Iraq changes hands into a puppet government beholding to big business and corruption. We’re not idiots here, come on… where did you guys dig up Chalabi?? What a joke.
What do you expect though? Act like a banana republic, get treated like a banana republic. How did such a great nation come to so much international scorn?? Can’t kill scorn with guns, it just grows…
There have been more flagrant violations of treaty, protocol, and international law on the part of the current American administration, and more blatant attempt at revisionism and outright disinformation on a highly treasonous level throughout this invasion that millions of your own citizens have protested strongly against the government, and calls for impeachment and trial for war crimes come from WITHIN the U.S. daily. There is a direct correlation between the level of education and the level of disgust with the administration. It’s obvious even when one scratches the surface of information coming from the higher levels of academia.

When we factor in the “bombing back to the Stone Age” part that we’ve come to call “collateral damage”, and the fact that the previous war and ensuing decade of sanctions were clearly engineered to destroy iraqi health and civic infrastucture, we plainly see a picture of a largely defenceless nation being crushed militarily for corporate interests, which is made all the more criminal when we realize that the corporation is inextricably linked to the Commander in Chief.

The vague promises of reconstruction have so far not included ANY of the mandated infrastructure repairs as listed in the Geneva convention, and predicatably have been revealed to be primitve lies, the xenophobic and highly paranoid consensus for war in the first place has been indelibly shown to be a fraud, and once again the players who will make billions of unaccountable dollars are the ones that lied to make the case for war in the first place…

I really feel that the only way for America to gain any sort of credibility when it comes to righeousness or democracy is to undergo a major coup of some kind. Two hundred years go they would have hung the damn president for this sort of thing. The American ideal of vigilance towards government is clearly a thing of the past. Moreover, there’s been an unprecedented string of executive changes, most of them illegal in their own right, to reduce disclosure, accountability, taxation, and limitations on governmental powers.

It’s over, you let it happen, and the laws are being changed so that it will be easier next time to engage in illegal military oppression with or without the approval of the American citizenry.
The US economy is now in roughly the same state as Enron was a year ago. Nobody believes the fiscal forecasts anymore, and the dollar has nowhere to go but down, ESPECIALLY if you engage in an endless military campaign halfway around the world. You can’t pay for it and the world knows it. Granted, you may pursue the litigious path of “reclaiming war expense”, but once again, who invest in a company that has to sue constantly to even break even? The amount of people who are stupid enough to buy American dollars now are getting fewer, now that some of the world realizes that the national economy is largely based on misleading and fraudulent accounting practices, much like Wall Street has been shown to be.
Once again, the power of the military will be eclipsed by the power of people’s pocketbooks. Not very good timing, simulatneously pushing for a global economic “partenership” whilst engaging in the very behaviour that alienates investors. If the US can’t keep their promises, and if they continue to break treaties by the dozen, who exactly will trust them?

If you feel any safer, properous, or protected by your governments actions of the past two years I feel nothing but pity for you. Well no, throw in a lot of contempt for the drone-like hyperpatriotic drivel emanating from the American media, and you’re getting warm.

Why does it matter about Israel getting oil from Iraq when they reached a deal to get oil from Iran (of all places) a while ago. While I’m not sure if the deal actually happened the mere fact that both sides actually managed to come to an agreement just shows the power of the almight dollar. It doesn’t matter if you hate them politically sometimes it’s okay to be economic friends.

-Iran, Israel agree oil deal

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Skip *
**Why does it matter about Israel getting oil from Iraq when they reached a deal to get oil from Iran (of all places) a while ago. While I’m not sure if the deal actually happened the mere fact that both sides actually managed to come to an agreement just shows the power of the almight dollar. It doesn’t matter if you hate them politically sometimes it’s okay to be economic friends.
The point isnt about whether its ok for Iraq to be an ‘economic friend’ of Israel but that because this is a significant about turn in Iraq policy it shouldnt be imposed upon the Iraqis by a foreign power. If our goal in Iraq is to establish democracy then we would do well to leave such decisions to an elected Iraqi government serving the Iraqi popular will and that will may not favour relations with Israel. I have this nightmare vision of Iraq “agreeing” to leave OPEC, to host US bases, to allow US commercial domination of its oil industry and to recognise Israel, all before an Iraqi government even exists. What sort of democracy isnt allowed to make such fundamental decisions on its own behalf?

Bingo.

It’d be just like Panama, all over again! :smiley: